{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/jd4pk07670/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Yitzhak A. Holocaust testimony"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/005/original/Fortunoff-Logo.png?1549333634","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Videotape testimony of Yitzhak A., who was born in Švenčionys, Poland (presently Lithuania) in 1926. He recalls a large and warm extended family; moving to Zamość, Lublin, and Warsaw as his father changed cantorial positions; German invasion in 1939; his bar mitzvah in November; he and his sister smuggling themselves to Švenčionys in the Soviet zone; attending Russian school; receiving letters from their parents; German invasion in June 1941; attempting to escape east; attacks by Lithuanians; returning home; hearing Stalin's radio call for partisan warfare; announcement of ghettoization; escaping to Glubokoye; learning of a mass shooting outside Švenčionys, including most of his family; his sister visiting; their return to Švenčionys; ghettoization; forced labor sorting abandoned Soviet weapons; smuggling some into the ghetto; forming an underground group; forced labor for Organisation Todt; the arrest of two of their members when a gun was inadvertently shot; the group's decision not to escape to prevent endangering the entire ghetto; arrival of 2,000 more Jews, facilitating their escape; and escaping to a forest with twenty-five others in March 1943. (Abstract)","This testimony is open with permission. (Conditions Governing Access)","Copyright has been transferred to the Fortunoff Video Archive for Holocaust Testimonies. Use of this testimony requires permission of the Fortunoff Video Archive. (Conditions Governing Use)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2001-04-18 (creation)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Fortunoff Video Archive for Holocaust Testimonies (Producer)","A., Yitzhak, 1926- (Interviewee)","A, Yitzhak (5383) (Interviewee)","Langer, Lawrence L., 1929- (Interviewer)","Laub, Dori, 1937-06-08 - 2018-06-23 (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["3 videocassettes","2:58:22 duration_HH_MM_SS_mmm"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["A., Yitzhak, 1926- (Person or Corporate Body)","Markov, Fëdor Grigorʹevich, 1913-1958 (Person or Corporate Body)","Organisation Todt (Germany) (Person or Corporate Body)","Voroshilov (Resistance group) (Person or Corporate Body)","Poland. Polskie Siły Zbrojne. Armia Krajowa (Person or Corporate Body)","Beriḥah (Organization) (Person or Corporate Body)","Palmaḥ (Person or Corporate Body)","Voroshilov brigade (Person or Corporate Body)","Chapayev partisan battalion (Person or Corporate Body)","A., Tzipora, 1939- (Person or Corporate Body)","Holocaust survivors (topical)","Video tapes (topical)","Men (topical)","Holocaust, Jewish (1939-1945) -- Personal narratives (topical)","World War, 1939-1945 -- Personal narratives, Jewish (topical)","World War, 1939-1945 -- Children (topical)","Zionists (topical)","Bar mitzvah (topical)","Brothers and sisters (topical)","Jewish ghettos (topical)","Jews -- Lithuania -- Švenčionys (topical)","Jews -- Lithuania -- Vilnius (topical)","World War, 1939-1945 -- Atrocities (topical)","Paneriai Massacres, Paneriai, Lithuania, 1941-1944 (topical)","Forced labor (topical)","World War, 1939-1945 -- Jewish resistance (topical)","Forests and forestry (topical)","World War, 1939-1945 -- Prisoners and prisons, German (topical)","World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Belarus (topical)","Escapes (topical)","Revenge (topical)","World War, 1939-1945 -- Participation, Soviet (topical)","World War, 1939-1945 -- Participation, Jewish (topical)","Holocaust, Jewish (1939-1945) -- Study and teaching (topical)","Poland (geographic)","Švenčionys (Lithuania) (geographic)","Zamość (Poland) (geographic)","Lublin (Poland) (geographic)","Warsaw (Poland) (geographic)","Hlybokae (Belarus) (geographic)","Łódź (Poland) (geographic)","Palestine -- Emigration and immigration (geographic)","Oral histories (document genres) (genre_form)","Historians (occupation)","Mutual aid (topical)","Postwar experiences (topical)","Partisans (topical)","Hiding (topical)","Mass killings (topical)","Soviet occupation (topical)","Child survivors (topical)","Vilna ghetto (geographic)","Švenčionys ghetto (geographic)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["New Haven, Conn. : (Place of Recording)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (Primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["mssa.hvt.4103 (EAD ID)","4789901 (Orbis bib)"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Videotape testimony of Yitzhak A., who was born in Švenčionys, Poland (presently Lithuania) in 1926. He recalls a large and warm extended family; moving to Zamość, Lublin, and Warsaw as his father changed cantorial positions; German invasion in 1939; his bar mitzvah in November; he and his sister smuggling themselves to Švenčionys in the Soviet zone; attending Russian school; receiving letters from their parents; German invasion in June 1941; attempting to escape east; attacks by Lithuanians; returning home; hearing Stalin's radio call for partisan warfare; announcement of ghettoization; escaping to Glubokoye; learning of a mass shooting outside Švenčionys, including most of his family; his sister visiting; their return to Švenčionys; ghettoization; forced labor sorting abandoned Soviet weapons; smuggling some into the ghetto; forming an underground group; forced labor for Organisation Todt; the arrest of two of their members when a gun was inadvertently shot; the group's decision not to escape to prevent endangering the entire ghetto; arrival of 2,000 more Jews, facilitating their escape; and escaping to a forest with twenty-five others in March 1943.","This testimony is open with permission.","Copyright has been transferred to the Fortunoff Video Archive for Holocaust Testimonies. Use of this testimony requires permission of the Fortunoff Video Archive."]},"provider":[{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Fortunoff Video Archive for Holocaust Testimonies"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Fortunoff Video Archive for Holocaust Testimonies"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/005/original/Fortunoff-Logo.png?1549333634","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/066/421/small/open-uri20191231-18341-1jogkmb_1577799442.jpg?1577781443","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 3 - open-uri20191231-18341-1jogkmb.mov"]},"duration":3679.22167,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/066/421/small/open-uri20191231-18341-1jogkmb_1577799442.jpg?1577781443","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-fortunoff.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/066/421/original/open-uri20191231-18341-1jogkmb.mov?1577781442","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3679.22167,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDORI LAUB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yitzhak Arad, the [INAUDIBLE] department in the Fortunoff Video Archive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=0.21,4.28"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eCREW:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. Go ahead.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=4.28,10.56"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDORI LAUB:\u003c/strong\u003e You need more?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=10.56,11.75"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eCREW:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, no we're starting now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=11.75,13.71"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDORI LAUB:\u003c/strong\u003e Sorry, OK.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=13.71,14.37"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e No no, but--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=14.37,15.31"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e You.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=15.31,16.07"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e Identify-- they didn't get the date before.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=16.07,19.46"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDORI LAUB:\u003c/strong\u003e This is April 18, 2001. And this is an interview with Professor Yitzhak Arad for the Fortunoff Video Archive for Holocaust Testimonies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=19.46,34.51"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e My name is Yitzhak Arad. In my childhood, I was called Rucnicki. I was born in a small township, Świȩciany, and the Jews called it Sventzion. Now it's called-- it's part of Lithuania, and so it's called, uh, Svencionys.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=34.51,54.78"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e It was Poland in those days?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=54.78,55.63"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e Between the two world wars, it was part of Poland. It's located about 85, up to 90 kilometers northeast of, uh, Vilna. It was a small township with about 8,000 people living there, among them 3,000, uh, Jews.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=55.63,74.08"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Jews were the largest minority in this township because the oth-- the other 5,000 were composed of, uh, Russians, Belorussians, Lithuanians, Poles, uh, Tartars, and so if the center of the city was, of course, a-- a Jewish city, so-called shtetl. One of the-- of the, like, 100, maybe some thousands others shtetls located in-- in East, uh, Europe with a large market base in the center and a Jewish part and some, uh, non-Jewish parts. (shtetl)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=74.08,110.37"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Uh, when I say 3,000 Jews, I would say that almost one-third of them were my relatives because, uh, my parents were born there. So the two grandparents, the four grandparents lived there, and, uh, we-- there were big, large Jewish families in Eastern Europe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=110.37,129.99"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'd say my father has, uh, three more living brothers. Two died before the-- the child were born, and, uh, my mother had, uh, two sisters and three more brothers. So and then families with cousins, so I'm saying when I-- when I went through the street, almost each second Jew I met was, uh, one of my relatives, and it was very friendly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=129.99,157.64"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, uh, my father was a cantor in a synagogue, hazzan. And, uh, when I was approximately in the age of four, means 1930, uh, my father became a hazzan in Poland, the city called Zamosc.*  It's in the old Jewish-- all the community there. We stayed there for about, uh, five years. Later, we went to the city of Lublin , which was a large synagogue, the Maharshal shul, the famous, uh, rabbi Maharshal , and there was a hazzan at this shul, and in 1937, we went to Warsaw.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=157.64,196.86"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDORI LAUB:\u003c/strong\u003e Any memories from the shtetl?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=196.86,198.94"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, then, uh, my memories, of course, of-- of Swieciany is always the-- the-- the warmness of-- of-- of-- of-- of a family city of-- of-- of something very close, very friendly, very, very warm everywhere. Warm, I mean, the feeling of the population.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=198.94,216.97"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In Zamosc and to Lublin and in Warsaw, I went to in Hebrew schools. It was my-- that my parents were Zionist people, and I got in Hebrew Zionist education, so I went in the Tarbut sh-- school. I learned Hebrew. (Tarbut)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=216.97,235.69"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When we lived in Lublin, I went to Yavneh school, which was in more religious character, but also in Hebrew school. .   In Warsaw, I also went over to Hebrew school. My memories from Zamosc and from Lublin are only around the schools, around the people with whom I met, but I cannot compare it to my memories, my feelings, towards my native town Swieciany.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=235.69,261.89"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eINTERVIEWER:\u003c/strong\u003e What pictures do you remember from there, [INAUDIBLE]?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=261.89,264.97"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e I remember the place. I remember the city. I remember where we lived. I remember, in the school, the holidays, the-- the-- the performances, let's say, Hanukkah or Purim, or all-- all this. I remember-- remember in the synagogue the choir of the synagogue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=264.97,283.69"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was singing in the-- in the synagogue. And by the way, I have even some picture which my-- my father of the whole quarter and sent in I, as a small boy, with the-- with a tallis and with the-- uh, cup, uh, singing in the-- in this synagogue. So, eh, what more can I remember?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=283.69,302.92"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e Your mother stayed at home?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=302.92,304.81"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, my mother stayed at home.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=304.81,305.44"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, and you had a sister also.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=305.44,306.73"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e Sister was my other sister, which two years older than myself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=306.73,313.19"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you have any interaction with the Christian community, any Christian friends?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=313.19,317.34"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e Uh, I would say very, very little, very little, because the Jewish life was so organized that you could-- you could live all the life from the-- from the day you were you were born till you died till the Hevra Kaddish took-- took-- always to be in a Jewish environment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=317.34,333.92"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so it is-- it's childhood. It's the brit milah, and it is the-- the school, and it is later if your bar mitzvah is Jewish, and then you are-- if you're married, it is a Jewish marriage. So the whole life could be-- if you were not in touch on-- on business, let's say co-- contacts, it is-- it is-- you could live the whole Jewish life","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=333.92,357.14"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Political parties, by the way, what I can remember, it was all the-- even my small township, Swieciany with 3,000 Jews, very lively political life. You can find that it's starting with education. I remember the-- say the Hebrew school, Tarbut, but, also, and folkshul, which was an Yiddish education mainly by the Jewish Bund encouraged.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=357.14,377.87"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There were old political parties from, let's say, from a group of revisionists till going to all the Zionist sz  and-- and-- and-- till a group of Bund and some communist youngster, which-- which went to the, uh-- so in such a small township, you could find the whole-- the whole Jewish life, uh, in this and very-- this disputes and-- and even in the schools, [INAUDIBLE] as Tarbut and the Yiddish was a-- a dispute between the Hebrew and Yiddish language, which culture is going to be our-- our-- our culture.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=377.87,413.09"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Again, as a child, uh, I remember it. I wasn't, let's say, a partner to it because it wasn't, uh, an age. And later-- when I would say it later when I was in Swieciany back after-- after during the wartime, then, uh, some more acute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=413.09,430.01"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then, uh, in Warsaw, I finished my Tarbut school, and I started to-- there was a Tachkemoni,  to secondary school, also in Hebrew, more religious character, and in 1939, I started to study there, and then, uh, I remembered the few weeks in August 1939 when already the-- sound-- sounds of war started to sound, and then I remember I went to live that time in Warsaw. I went with my father. He was a famous square in Warsaw, Krasiński, Krasiński Square called, where we were digging the-- in the-- some-- uh, some-- dug—dig","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=430.01,477.86"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDORI LAUB:\u003c/strong\u003e Trenches.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=477.86,478.0"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e Trenches against the air attacks. And what this time what I remember, we did the Jews and Poles. It was such an atmosphere of friendship, let's say. It's the first time that-- that we came at something very close with the Poles, which was because the-- the garden was some in the center of-- one sided was the Jewish quarters also, and the second part, the other side, was the-- the Gentile parts of-- of Warsaw.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=478.0,504.05"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then we met together. It was a very feeling of-- of-- of common faith and common against the Nazi Germany, which is preparing to-- to-- to attack Poland and this point because a few weeks later, after the Germans entered the-- the Warsaw, the whole atmosphere of the local population. I could feel how we changed the same Pole with whom we dig together the-- the-- the trenches.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=504.05,529.75"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When in Sep-- in October, let's say, of '39, we were staying in a queue to-- from bread. It was-- uh, he could show this to Jew, Jew, Jew, the way we were thrown out of-- out of the queue because if there is a little bread, it's only, first of all, for the Polish population or for-- for-- for-- for the Jews.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=529.75,550.25"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But [INAUDIBLE] going back to-- to what I remember. I remember very well the-- the day of the 1st of September, '39. Early in the morning, we were awakened with some-- we heard some far explosions from somewhere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=550.25,565.95"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We didn't get-- know what-- what happened, but, actually, some German aircraft bombed, I think, the airport of-- of Warsaw or something. And then within a short time, it can-- the alarm sounded, and it was the first, uh, German, or in the morning already the air attack on-- on Warsaw.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=565.95,585.17"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, the 7th of September, the Polish government, as I remember, escaped from the city. Again, I-- we-- it was a call for the-- for all the population to leave more to the east because, uh, it was a feeling that, uh, Poland will-- will be able to resist, uh, the Germans.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=585.17,607.71"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"England-- if England and France entered the war, the 3rd of September, as I got the feeling he will take a few time-- a few days. Then the whole strength of Great Britain and-- and-- and France will be felt, and there will be-- have results on-- on-- on-- on the Germans. We hesitated whether to leave Warsaw for the direction of my native town, Swieciany, which was more to the east than--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=607.71,630.34"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e Was that in the Russian zone?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=630.34,631.94"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e And but-- uh, this was the-- the-- we could leave before the 7th of September because after the 8th of September, Warsaw was already surrounded, and then we stayed there. For three weeks, Warsaw, what I remember, is at that time perfectly, till I think till the 27th of-- of September, the daytime, all the time, uh, air attacks on-- on the Warsaw.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=631.94,657.85"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And nighttime, the artillery was, uh, shelling. In the house that we lived, of course, all of us went down in the cellar and-- and under some-- just more secure. Uh, I remember as a child some, uh, uh, new, uh, burning bombs. How you call it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=657.85,676.7"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDORI LAUB:\u003c/strong\u003e Incendiary.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=676.7,677.26"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e Incendiary bombs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=677.26,677.83"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e Incendiary bombs were, and the way we did, we just-- we kept, uh, uh, ready sand, and then when you put-- put-- put on it some sand, such incendiary bomb was, uh, no more active, and I myself was able a few such bombs to-- to-- to pour sand on it. But when the war-- the-- the blowing of bombs was more dangerous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=677.83,703.47"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Uh, I remember we built barricades in the city because there was a-- there was an order, a call to the pop-- to the population to build barricades in the streets if the German tanks will penetrate, and we took out from my-- from our house, from everyone, whatever we could just to-- to block the streets in case the German tanks will enter the city.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=703.47,727.24"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was no water, no food. I remember pictures that the war, military, some military units, which did the horses, which were killed by bombing, I remember people were sitting near such a horse with a knife and-- and-- and-- and cutting the-- the-- the-- the-- the-- the flesh of the horse for-- for eating.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=727.24,747.85"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So it was the-- I-- I felt what-- what war does mean, and-- and in a surrounded city for three weeks, and then, suddenly, in silence, a quiet. By the way, what I remember again in the approximately the 16 or 17 or 18 September, some real rumors spread among the population, especially among Jews, which from where we lived, that the Soviet Army is approaching Warsaw.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=747.85,773.31"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"According-- we didn't know that time about the Ribbentrop-Molotov agreement that the Soviet Army, but-- but in the 17th of September, the Soviet army crossed the eastern border of Poland and penetrated, entered East Poland, or how they called it, Western Belarussia and Western Ukraine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=773.31,789.64"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But there was some rumors that they will reach Warsaw. Definitely Warsaw wasn't in the [INAUDIBLE] agreement [INAUDIBLE]. And, uh, 27th of September, suddenly quietness, and then it was announced the city is surrounded, and the Germans entered the city. Again, what I can remember is the first German units enter the city and, uh, immediately, I remember pictures like the German soldiers were-- caught some Jew with a beard and cut him half off his beard and were mocking around him and joking and taking, uh, pictures.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=789.64,827.39"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e This was the Wehrmacht, not the SS?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=827.39,829.19"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e No, the Wehrmacht, the soldiers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=829.19,830.23"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e Soldiers?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=830.23,830.92"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e The-- the SS, the first day, they didn't-- maybe they entered Warsaw, but what-- what we came across in the-- in the Wehrmacht. And, uh, again, as I mentioned to you, there were some queues for water and queues for-- for some bread, and this-- this time, again, we-- we showed how the-- the Poles immediately became different, uh, people from the brotherhood when we were digging together the trenches, just, uh, they showed to the German soldier, which was in charge of the-- of the queue with bread.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=830.92,863.61"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They said Jews-- we will travel north out of the -- of the queues. And, uh, so this such events I remember. They said Jews—were thrown out-- of the queues. And, uh, so this such events I remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=863.61,873.34"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A parallel to it, when the war started, I was just in the preparation for my bar mitzvah. I was-- I was born in November 26, if I didn't mention at the beginning of it, November 26, 11th November. So I was in preparation for a bar mitzvah before.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=873.34,890.64"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And my father insisted that we shall continue the preparation for bar mitzvah, even under German occupation. And, uh, again, I remember when my-- when I went to the Torah in the synagogue, the-- the Moria Synagogue, my father-- my father was there a cantor.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=890.64,906.49"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There were three big synagogues in Warsaw. The first was the Tłomackie Synagogue with the famous hazzan, Koussevitsky.  Maybe you have heard about it. Then there was the Nozyk Shul, which still today, the only synagogue in Warsaw, Nożyk, a famous hazzan, Sirota. which I usually-- together with father, I went to listen to them. And I remember it very well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=906.49,926.15"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then third, uh, was the Moriah Synagogue, which my father was the-- the cantor. And, uh, just when I went and I read the Torah, I just outside the-- the synagogue, we heard-- and cars stop with the German soldiers, and any moment, we were afraid that they will come up in the synagogue and made some pogrom a little. But, uh, they didn't enter the synagogue, and so I went through to reading my-- my Torah, and I have Torah, what-- what I needed, and--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=926.15,956.73"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e Were there people in the synagogue?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=956.73,957.98"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e And there were people in the synagogue. Look, the prayer has, at that time, more of a different character. It was, uh, more, uh, a-- a prayer for-- for-- for-- for the situation, although it-- it is not something abstract, uh, feeling, but, OK, god help us today-- what-- what we are living and what we are facing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=957.98,980.93"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, so in the meantime, what I didn't say, my-- in the first, after German occupation, the border between this-- the German-occupied part of Poland to the Soviet part of occupied Poland. It wasn't a closed bubble. The people couldn't quite move from one side.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=980.93,1001.02"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And my sister, which was at that time, 15 years old, she actually was sent to our native town, Swieciany, which was occupied by the Soviets. I said occupied. Others can say liberated. It depends from which point of view you are looking on such a question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1001.02,1016.93"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, to see whether maybe the whole family will go back to just to check the possibility of the place. And then on November, my sister returned, girl 15 years old went with the smugglers .The border every day became more and more, uh, guarded between that-- the part of Soviet-- Soviet occupation and German occupation.*","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1016.93,1041.2"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then she came. She told, OK, and Swieciany is a very good-- not a good life, but, uh, Jews feel themselves very well under the Soviet, uh, occupation, or liberation, again, as I said, and let's go-- let's-- and the whole family is awaiting us to-- to come back to Swieciany, which was the Soviet rule.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1041.2,1062.47"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And she said that the Jewish people have some prominent positions took over that, the former Jewish communist part, and so many positions that in Poland that you couldn't even think about it. Here the Jews could-- became, let's say, even the militia [INAUDIBLE] in-- in the-- in Poland, they couldn't find the Jewish policeman, and the Soviet militia was many of the Jews immediately and then also in the-- in government offices.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1062.47,1089.94"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So my parents decided we shall-- in principle, we will try to go back to our native town, but, uh, let's, first of all, I and my sister will go, and then, uh, they will come a few weeks later. I even don't know what the reason, but-- but maybe they have to-- want maybe to sell their apartment or to sell-- I don't know exactly what happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1089.94,1112.42"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then on the 20-- how the-- at that time, crossing the border was more difficult. It became a border, and it was a smug-- police smugglers, people who lived on closed borders, they smuggled through the Bug River, the Bug River was the-- the River Bug was the, at this time, border.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1112.42,1130.09"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then I remember we have to be the smuggler to go by train to some, I think, town called Malkinia, not close-- close to the border, and then the smugglers to take us towards the evening to some village very close to the Bug, and-- and that time, the Bug was already frozen. It was December 15-- 24th, Christmas night.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1130.09,1152.78"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We were two of us and Jewish-- and a young couple, also a Jewish couple, the four of us to go together. And I remember us, that father, uh, took us to the railway station. And, uh, that time, I think we didn't yet have-- we had already the-- the-- the white, uh, armband with the blue Magen Star of David, which we Jews were forbid-- forbidden to-- to-- travel by train, ordered it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1152.78,1182.92"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we took it away. I didn't look typical, maybe Jewish. My sister, also, not so-- so it was some danger, but, uh, we-- we took this, uh, risk, and, uh, I remember it last time parts from the parents. I thought that in a few weeks, we shall see them again, but I didn't see them more.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1182.92,1215.56"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDORI LAUB:\u003c/strong\u003e [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1215.56,1216.84"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e How old were your parents at that time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1216.84,1219.42"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e My father was born in '91. So it was the time approximately 38 years, 39. My mother was born in '94, so she was certainly a-- a lady of 38, something like this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1219.42,1235.2"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e [INAUDIBLE] yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1235.2,1238.08"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e OK, when smuggling the border, uh, at midnight, the smuggler came to the house where we stayed in the village and, quickly, quickly. Let's-- let's move. What about we had some bags.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1238.08,1251.58"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"No, no, leave it. We should bring the bags, uh, later. We approached the-- the river of the Bug, which was at the border, and then he suddenly disappeared and said, wait a moment. I will just come back. I'm going to see whether there is some, uh, guards, German guards or Soviet guards.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1251.58,1269.73"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We waited five 10, 15 minutes. He disappeared. He left us just and-- on the border before without knowing what to do. I was 13. My sister is 15 years, and there were-- then there were a-- a-- about the two other people were also there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1269.73,1286.86"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, the-- the-- a second couple disappeared. They-- they left us. And we stayed just-- we know, generally, the-- the direction to move to-- to the east. We crossed the-- the frozen, uh, river, and we just saw some farm, which had a little light.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1286.86,1306.09"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We went in this direction, and we knocked on the door. A peasant didn't open us. It was night, and people were afraid. But we told them, look, which-- we asked them, which part we are? We are on the Soviet side or the German side?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1306.09,1317.43"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"No, you are on the Soviet side, but still you, uh, hear our guards, Soviet guards, very close, and they are usually returning. We know that they are returning the people with rights to go to bother, returning back to the German occupied area.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1317.43,1332.31"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So he showed us in which direction to-- to move. Finally, we reached-- we went further. We succeeded to reach the city of Bialystok. From there, we embarked the train, and we went to, after two or three days, we reached Swieciany, my native town.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1332.31,1351.74"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Uh, we were accepted very friendly by the-- three of my grandparents still, two grand-- two grandmothers and, uh, one grandfather, they lived and all the uncles and cousins I mentioned. And we-- it was December. As I say, at night, I had-- I crossed-- there was a Christmas night '40-- '39.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1351.74,1375.81"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I remember-- I say this because Christmas night happened to me-- actually, when I arrived later, I will take to Eretz Yisrael. It was also Christmas night for the '4-- '45, exactly Chris-- Christmas night. So, uh, this was-- uh, when it-- of course we stayed with one of my uncles.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1375.81,1394.86"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One of my uncles, they didn't have children. So we stayed, uh, with them. It was a small, uh, wooden, uh, house. Let's say the whole house was like-- like this, uh, room with, uh, and big, big, uh, chim-- big, uh, you know--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1394.86,1411.16"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e Stove? Oven?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1411.16,1412.11"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e Stove, old stove and like built, you know, on this. Wintertime, if you used to sleep on the stove, and we need the stove. There was a place for-- for, uh, chickens keeping, you know? It was a typical-- like-- like in a village house that we stayed there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1412.11,1427.78"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, I went into a Russian school. It was a problem because, actually, Swieciany became an border town between Lithuania and Soviet Union. Swieciany became part of Belarussia at that-- that-- that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1427.78,1447.49"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now it's Estonia, but at that time, it became part of Belarussia because Vilna was handed over to Lithuania. The Soviets in October 1939 handed over Lithuania, Vilna, to Lithuanian, an agreement which permit them to keep Soviet forces inside, uh, Lithuanian zone.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1447.49,1464.37"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But Swieciany became that-- became still remained not with Vilna, but remained part of Soviet Union, part of Belarussia SSR, Belarusian, Soviet Republic.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1464.37,1475.35"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, it was-- those are old-- those who are not permanent inhabitants of this township, not to keep them in the border earlier. So they wanted to, me and my sister, to go somewhere Soviet Union, not-- not not to stay there. But, finally, we remained there, but with some problems.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1475.35,1494.88"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We received letters from Warsaw from my parents. 1940, we received letters because the relation with Soviet Union and Germany were-- were based on the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact. It was very friendly. So there was [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1494.88,1507.6"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One time, we received even a letter, if we can, to return back to Warsaw. Why they want us? There are possibilities for Warsaw people will be able to go to Palestine, or Israel at that time. Such rumors were among Jews. It wasn't-- it has no-- as the historians says, it has no basic fac-- it was not known facts, no known-- no reality, but rumors people leap on-- on rumors.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1507.6,1533.03"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Uh, but of course, we didn't think about it. I don't even no why-- how we reacted, I don't remember, but we didn't go back. I went into a Russian school, but it wasn't a school-- a school of Yiddish also. Unfortunately, the Germans-- of course, the Tarbut school-- school they closed immediately, confiscated the whole library with all the Hebrew books.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1533.03,1556.07"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it was an-- it is school was-- but because I went into the Russian school, not in-- not to the Yiddish school because I-- my Yiddish-- I spoke in fluent Yiddish, but I didn't just-- uh, I couldn't compare myself to those students who studied from the beginning in the-- in the-- in the folkshul in that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1556.07,1576.74"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And but still-- I had a young uncle, which was three years older than myself, and he was a member of the Halutz Hatzair.  And in my [INAUDIBLE], during the-- in 1940, they organized some small group of former Zionist members of Halutz Hatzair, and, uh, I was part of this. What-- what have you done? What was the whole activity?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1576.74,1599.66"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We kept the radio, and we tried to listen to what then called Yerushalayim was at that time during the British, which Friday evening used to-- to-- to-- to, uh, broadcast to-- to other countries. We tried to catch it. From time to time, we were able to-- to-- to listen to-- to-- to Jerusalem. It was a very encouraging feeling for us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1599.66,1621.32"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we, as I say, the Hebrew library of the school was confiscated by the Soviets, but it succeeded to stole from them some part of the Hebrew book. Nighttime, we penetrated the-- the-- the place where the books were kept.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1621.32,1638.01"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I remember today that I was reading very some-- I would say, Zionist classic. I don't know the book [INAUDIBLE] of Avraham Mapu, Ahavat Zion, Ashmat Shomron, it-- it is-- it's Zionist classics from-- written for-- by the fathers of-- of Zionist Movement. Uh, and there were other-- some books where they took with, uh, I guess, Sefer HaShomer, from Shomer, from Hanita, which was a famous settlement on the border, HaGodrim BaZafon-- that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1638.01,1671.09"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Like today, there is-- and bound by a border, uh, between Israel and Lebanon. Over in '36, '37 when there was a-- the Arab-- also uprising, at that time, it was built, and-- and-- and wire, barbed wire border, fence along the border. So it was such a book.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1671.09,1689.39"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Of course, as a youngster of 14, 15, I was very influenced by-- by these readings. And my whole-- all my dreams were at that-- that time, one day, we will-- if it were on the possibility I will go to-- to-- Eretz Yisrael. But in the school, I became a-- pi-- pioneer, you know, pioneer was the-- the youth movement of the Communist Youth Movement, pionery.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1689.39,1713.58"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we-- so this was, at that time, the life, again, looking after some information for the parents, what happened. We also, from time to time, received letters, as I said. And, uh, this is my life there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1713.58,1729.32"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e Did they ever try to get to Swieciany, your parents, or there was no possibility anymore?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1729.32,1734.6"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e The border became much more stronger guarded, and then in the snow, there was that-- they could easily go into the trails--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1734.6,1742.69"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e I see.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1742.69,1743.03"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e --to to find the people to hang, and it became more and more dangerous to-- to-- to cross the-- uh, the border. So in such a way, I lived till June 1941. I remember, Sunday, 22nd of June, during the morning, which is what-- it was a Sunday. We went to-- to-- to outside the Swieciany to-- to some, uh, lake.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1743.03,1771.98"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then we saw planes flying high we didn't know. And, uh, 10 o'clock in the morning when I-- we went back from the lake to this-- to a township, we-- it was said that in a few minutes, Molotov will appear on the-- on the radio. And that time, people didn't have radios. It was forbidden.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1771.98,1793.88"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was such-- you could-- you could have in your home a loudspeaker connected to my [INAUDIBLE] central radio in the city. There, you could only listen to what they wanted you to listen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1793.88,1805.73"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then I remember 10 o'clock, Molotov announced his famous announcement. People of Soviet Union, this morning, 4 o'clock in the morning, German force attacked the Soviet Union. And, uh, how it happened, it was a traitorous attack.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1805.73,1825.7"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then I remember also that how-- always during the wartime, I remembered his words when he finished his speech. He fin-- he finished It in Russian. Nashe delo pravoye, vrag budet razbit, pobeda za nami. It means, our case is just. The enemy will be beaten. The success will be the victor will be-- will be as ours, so this finished.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1825.7,1851.53"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, of course, we expected that-- the-- the powerful Soviet Army will, in few days, crush the Germans. We expected to see armed-- armed military units to move from east to the west, to the front line. But within one day or two, I remember it [INAUDIBLE] saw some military units or some cars with-- with families who are traveling from-- from west to the east, just in that direction.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1851.53,1880.78"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And within a few, two days, some organized units, some unorganized-- organized Soviet Army units started to retreat. And it became that, uh, the Soviet Army is in-- in the area and collapsed on retreating. One day after two days of the 25th, 24th or 25th of June in the early morning, we got up. We didn't find more of the Soviet local, uh, authorities, not in NKVD, not in militia, nothing [INAUDIBLE] party. The city was left.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1880.78,1912.19"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then we decided, a small group of some youngsters, to escape. I was among themselves. I didn't have a family, no parents. I wasn't responsible for anybody. I was already, at that time, close to 15 years old to escape to-- to the east. We left the township in direction to-- to the east, about 5, 10 kilometers, and then fire was opened on us from-- from the forests.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1912.19,1938.32"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It turned out in the Soviet Army, when Soviet-- when Lithuania became a Soviet-- a Soviet Republic in 1940, summertime, they left the whole Lithuanian Army as part of the Soviet Army. It became a Soviet corpus, military unit with the uniforms, Lithuanian, as they were, they only put some commissars in the units, but they even-- the whole army remained 22nd of June, the whole corpus turned its arms against the Soviets that they attacked the retreating Soviet Union, including open fire on-- on us, which we were a part of the-- of many units, which were moved to-- to try to retreat to the east in direction of Polatsk, Minsk, this direction.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1938.32,1982.01"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We couldn't continue, and then we returned to Swieciany, to Swieciany, to my township. And then I remember when a day or two later, the German Army entered, and, uh, it was established in local Lithuanian-- Lithuanian local municipality with Lithuanian local police and started to meet-- Jews, of course, to-- to work, uh, to-- Jews were beaten.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1982.01,2013.48"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One day, the courts hanged a hundred of youngsters, youngsters, I mean, young people, which were voting age. They took them somewhere to work. We believe they were taken to work, but, actually, after a few months later, again, now they were not taken to work. They just were taken outside the city and shot outside.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2013.48,2035.56"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A second day, they caught 200 people. Among them were myself also. Also, where to take us somewhere to work more, people believed that, uh, [INAUDIBLE] take you to somewhere closer to the front line to-- to-- to repair roads, to repair-- build bridges for such work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2035.56,2057.09"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When we just had to embark some lorries, uh, suddenly appeared some Lithuanian police officer and took out three of us for some work at his house and cleaning. I was among the-- the three. And we came to his house. I stood to clean the-- the-- the yard outside, the garden and house.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2057.09,2081.01"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, later, we went back home. All the two other people were taken, again, we-- we believed for work. But, actually, they were-- the same day, they were shot some few kilometers outside the city. And just telling him it was so accidental if you-- between life and death, he could just-- yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2081.01,2102.87"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A-- we-- a group of four youngsters with time, it was in order to hand over all the radio apparatus. But still, again, but-- but by the Soviets were forbidden all the kibbutz, but still some of us kept. And I remember, we operated such a radio, some youngsters, my friends.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2102.87,2124.91"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, we and some-- by some chance, we were able on the 3rd of July, '41, it means about, uh, 10 days, we tried to find Moscow on the radio to listen to what happens on the front line. We didn't-- it was such a surprise that all the-- the-- so-- and we heard the first speech of Stalin during the Second World War, during the German attack.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2124.91,2152.71"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was the 3rd-- 3rd of July, '41. Till then, for-- for over 10 days, he didn't speak. He didn't appear, and then he called the Soviet-- it was a long speech explained why-- so how Soviet Union was surprised and so on and so on. But what I remember from this speech, he called for a partisan warfare in the German occupied territories to burn bridges, to burn everything, to attack Germany. It was a call for partisan warfare, and this is what I remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2152.71,2188.44"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then on the end of-- of September, it was announced that all the Jews from my Swieciany would be taken to a ghetto. We knew the Jews under the Germans believed in the ghetto. (*were living in) This was not-- this we knew from-- from refugees, which came from occupied Poland. We say they escaped, reached, they say-- the Jews live in ghettos. We knew that-- that-- what expect us a forced labor, ghetto, such things we-- we knew.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2188.44,2219.04"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[INAUDIBLE] the ghetto, the ghetto will be 5 kilometers out of Swieciany in some desolated army camp, former Polish Army camp and Russian Army camp in a place called Poligony, near its township called Nowe Swieciany, what was Swieciany, but also Nowe Swieciany, New Swieciany.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2219.04,2238.54"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2238.54,2240.04"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e And not only from-- and the ghetto will also be brought the Jews from surrounding townships. About 8,000 Jews will be brought there. Again, Jews knew that they will have to, as I said, in ghettos, but for some reason, it-- it-- Swieciany was also, at that time, part of Lithuania.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2240.04,2259.49"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Belarussia, which was very close to-- at that time, there were not yet ghettos. We have some Jews which were living, let's say, in a 20 kilometers from our town was a city called, township, called Hoduciszek-- Hoduciszki. But there was no ghettos. Jews are going for work, but not yet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2259.49,2275.14"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we decided, some group of youngsters, my friends, we decided to escape. Why should we go to ghetto? We should go to Belarussia where there are-- are not yet ghetto. 12 of us the night before the deportation to-- to this ghetto escaped.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2275.14,2291.72"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"On the way, we parted in smaller groups, which were hard to go 12 people. A long story about dangers, how we went that, finally, after a week wandering in fields and forests and other places, we reached a-- a place called Hlybokaye. Hlybokaye was a township closer, about 90 kilometer, 100 kilometers east from Swieciany.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2291.72,2313.01"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We reached such a township, and I remember we-- we were-- three of us, we entered the city, and we just didn't know anybody there, but it-- it seems to me that we saw some house which looked like a maybe Jewish lady looking from the window. There was not yet ghettos.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2313.01,2328.19"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I knocked on the door and told her, look, I-- I escaped from Swieciany. Can I stay with you? Such a simple way. She took me, OK, stay with us and some also-- all of us became such, uh-- in such Jewish families.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2328.19,2344.93"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, we-- it was the Judenrat already in Hlybokaye there. Every day, we went to the [INAUDIBLE], to Judenrat, to listen what-- what happened in Swieciany? We didn't know what happened with-- and the new ghetto and near Nowe Swieciany in the Poligon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2344.93,2361.52"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One day, became the story the Jews were brought-- brought-- brought to-- to the-- to-- to the deserted camp, stayed about a week there. Then they were told that next day people have to go for work, the men, all the men in the age from 15 till, I think, till 55, have to go in the morning to be close to the gates of the camp.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2361.52,2389.89"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, they were divided in groups of 50 people, taken into the woods to cut the woods. They went about 2 to 3 kilometers from the camp. Suddenly, they found themselves facing an open place in the forest, an open pit, a firing squad, close to the pit, and before they understood what going-- what was going on, they were shot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2389.89,2415.01"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"On the first day, all the men, a few thousand men were shot in this way. The second day too, the women and children to the same place and shot, all the close to 8,000 Jews. It happened in the beginning of October. I think the sixth or seventh of October or something like this in '41.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2415.01,2433.06"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e LAWRENCE L. Were your grandparents in this group?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2433.06,2435.0"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My grand-- all the three grandparents, many of my uncles of this, but in Swieciany, they left a small ghetto in Swieciany, about 300, up to 400 Jews, artisans, I mean, tailors, shoemakers, smiths, electricians, which they needed because in such a town, all the professions were Jewish professions. And not only Swieciany, it was in all the townships, the smaller shtetls, this-- this was the Jewish population.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2435.0,2461.69"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So the local authorities left for their own needs. Not-- it wasn't an order from above, but it was just the local authorities. I am telling this because, as I understand later in that time, the local authorities, if they wanted, they could leave some Jews for-- for-- for-- for that reason, even if the order, the general order, was to take all the Jews. Still they-- they had-- they were quite flexible to-- to-- to do such things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2461.69,2487.4"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e These are the local German authorities?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2487.4,2489.08"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e German and Lithuanians.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2489.08,2490.0"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e German and Lithuanians.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2490.0,2490.67"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e Lithuanians. And-- and there were in-- in the whole Swieciany was only in gendarmerie, Germans gendermerie posts, which about 10, 12 Germans. All the others were Lithuanian police and Lithuanian mayor of the city, everything but Lithuanians.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2490.67,2506.42"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, actually, the Jews were shot by a group of Lithuanians. The shooting, pogroms, carried out by Lithuanians with only one or two, three or Germans attended there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2506.42,2516.92"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e And your sister?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2516.92,2518.07"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e My sister-- then I said, they left a few hundred artisans with their families. And then the families became larger. Every-- uh, every tailor or every shoemaker said this-- they had two children. They took two, three, four more children.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2518.07,2535.92"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So my sister was-- became one daughter of-- of-- of some-- of some of the-- I don't remember what, shoemakers, some tailor or something. [INAUDIBLE]. And this, of course, is the first time then we came across the awareness that the Germans are murdering Jews.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2535.92,2556.31"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It is not yet an awareness that they are killing all the Jews and everywhere Jews, but that there is a mass killing of-- of Jews. In some way, in the Russia, it didn't happen. The Russians let the Jews, uh, lived.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2556.31,2573.09"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Actually, in Belarussia, the big wave of extermination took place, started in spring '42. Where in Lithuania, 80% of the Jews were all killed till the end of '41. It's a long story why it happened, but it's not in my personal story. It's just me, a historian, I can-- I have an explanation why-- why it happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2573.09,2589.68"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So then it was a belief that in such places, when few other Jews were left already. All other killed, but they left [INAUDIBLE], this and more secure place than other places. In the end of '41, it was announced that they were going to establish-- erect a ghetto in Hlybokaye.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2589.68,2615.79"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I was put together by the-- in Hlybokaye, I worked. I was working. Where was I working? I was working in a bakery. The family where I was staying with them, they were bakers, and it was very, very important place for work. First of all, it was very warm to walk.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2615.79,2634.29"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was close. It was wintertime-- November, December, very cold, and then you can get and bread with you when you're finished the work, and I remember we used to, with hands, to-- to-- to-- to prepare the-- the--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2634.29,2647.79"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e The dough.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2647.79,2648.46"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e This dough for-- for-- for the-- the bakery. One day, I went back with one of my friends back from work, from the Judenrat, where we looked after what information form the Jews back to our-- to the place where we stayed with the Jewish families.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2648.46,2666.62"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And one-- my friend stayed at one house further than I was. So we went together, and then I entered, and I just entered the apartment. The lady, which I was-- called me. Come. Come. Come here. See what-- to the window. Two Belarusian policeman stopped my friend.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2666.62,2684.19"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The local police, they knew who is a local Jew, who is not local jew, the local people. And they saw some not local. So they took him. They arrested him, and I saw they arrested him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2684.19,2694.6"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"After two days, they took him out-- out of the city and shoot him. Again, I'm telling this because how-- how accidentally was that-- I entered the house, and the second one, it was called-- his name was Yechiel, I remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2694.6,2710.37"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One day, when appeared-- I was told that some young lady is looking after us in the Judenrat. I went to the Judenrat. It turned out it was my sister. My sister worked-- was taken to-- I mentioned the gendarmerie post in the Swieciany.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2710.37,2733.21"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She was working there, cleaning the house. She and some other young lady, and, uh, in some way, she got a permission to-- to hire a peasant with her to go to see whether I am alive, not to bring us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2733.21,2753.03"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She came to Hlybokaye and we decided we are going back with her to Swieciany because, again, as I say, we lived in places where Jews were already killed, and there is left a few-- a few hundred, uh, artisans, which of whom they needed.  This is a more secure place. So I went back, but I lived in the ghet-- in the small ghetto, illegally, because I-- all the others were--- were-- they had the [? [NON-ENGLISH]. ?]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2753.03,2782.07"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e A pass.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2782.07,2782.65"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e Head of the family, pass, and all the people which were. So I was in hiding one or two months. I even don't remember. Again, we-- and some other youngsters like my friends, which were in school together, schoolmates, we-- in the even, you were meeting, talking.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2782.65,2800.11"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"All the time, we're talking, oh, which to find a way to get arms and to try to escape in the forest to start a fight. Again, we were all of the youngsters were-- where the Zionist [INAUDIBLE] for the Bund. It was very-- it was a very political minded-- very, very, very active minded, and the idea of of-- of-- of-- of struggling against the enemy, which-- which we know which is annihilating our people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2800.11,2825.08"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So-- so this was to be-- many times we talked about in the evening hours, late and in the wintertime, of '41, 42, sitting all the time. And one day, as I told, I was-- some German soldiers-- the whole ghetto was about 25, 30 wooden houses in the so-called shul hoyfe. It was a former Jewish, uh, synagogue in the township, a Jewish quarter, surrounded with barbed wire with one gate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2825.08,2853.03"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And in the morning, people went to work. In the evening, people went, uh, back. And I was caught with-- by some soldiers who came in the ghetto, which 10, 12 other people, and took us out-- outside the ghetto.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2853.03,2870.04"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Uh, and they took us to the actual Jewish cemetery. And I was with a young-- with one of my friends, which was my age. I told him, look, when we shall approach the cemetery, if we are going in a direction of the cemetery, if from the crossroads, which for-- it leads the way to the cemetery, let us try-- we shall-- we shall try to run away because it's the cemetery, that means they're going to shoot us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2870.04,2894.51"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Of course, I can-- I cannot describe the feeling approaching the crossroads whether it will take us right or not to the-- to the cemetery, no. Finally, we passed-- they didn't take us to crossroads. They took us on the outskirts of the township. There were some big stores-- went and the Germans accompanied all the time for us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2894.51,2914.46"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And when you entered the big stores, it turned out that the places our-- and they collected all, uh, Soviet arms when the Soviet Army left behind them. They-- they collected in these stores, all from the arms that local people had.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2914.46,2932.34"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And they asked us to sort the rifles, put to one side, the guns on the other side, the revolvers on the third side to-- to sort the different kinds and to clean it and to pre-- to prepare it for somewhere to take it to the railway station somewhere to be sent. The railway station was 12 kilometers from my township near Nowe Swieciany, not in Swieciany","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2932.34,2958.39"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I was just-- and the soldier was-- we were-- we were three or four people in each of the store, and one soldier was with us. And one moment, he came-- he went out a little outside, and then I-- among the huge arm-- pile of the arms, I found some-- in Russian, it's called otrezayka.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2958.39,2979.67"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was a rifle, which the barrel was cut, and the other side so that those-- approximately of this size. Usually, a peasant, which find-- and-- and rifle for even what can I do with such and-- you cut it to make shorter, and then Sunday evening when they went to drink some vodka to some gulyanka to spend, even they took it. They were shooting it just for-- for fun, not-- not-- not-- but it was in weapons there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2979.67,3006.67"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I saw it when the soldier went out, I just pushed-- pulled it-- took it behind my shirt, and I continued to walk, and all-- I felt that when I'm, uh, knee down, I-- I felt that maybe that he can feel that I-- that I'm not doing [INAUDIBLE] and so on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3006.67,3021.76"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e 4:\u003c/strong\u003e And the only thing I always thinking, what will be the end of the day? Will the soldiers search us or not when we finish the work? It was approximately30. They put-- took us out. They put us in one line, not-- I thought this time, search or no? Search, you know, and searching me, dead. It's not just something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3021.76,3043.78"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"No, they put a line, and then he took-- he took us back to the ghetto. The ghetto was approximately about 2 1/2 kilometers to walk, and in the-- near the gate, there was always guarded by two Lithuanian policemen, which were searching the Jews were returning from work when they were out smuggling food.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3043.78,3063.36"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And all the way, I was thinking, will they search? Will not they search? Will they search? Again, search means dead, not search means.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3063.36,3070.51"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We were enough lucky that the German soldiers were accompanying us, took us through the gates. It didn't-- he didn't leave us. We went with him through the gates so the Lithuanians didn't search us, [INAUDIBLE]. And we just, inside the ghetto, told us tomorrow, 6 o'clock morning, you will be here again to continue to work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3070.51,3090.68"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And he left, and I remained in the ghetto with-- with this firearm. The problem was where to-- what to do with it. In each house, in such [INAUDIBLE] lived 10, 15, 20 people. It wasn't where to hide-- everywhere you moved, there were people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3090.68,3106.59"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Finally, there was some such a large stove behind it. Finally, I found the place, and the same evening, I told some of my youngsters, young friends, that the morning, let us go together to work because some of the people which worked, elder, they didn't want to go the next day. So some of my friends went. We worked and broke rocks maybe one month in this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3106.59,3127.4"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDORI LAUB:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you also get bullets?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3127.4,3129.12"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e What? Yes, we got the bull-- the bullets, and I pushed them into-- we have the-- you-- this-- how they call it? The--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3129.12,3135.41"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDORI LAUB:\u003c/strong\u003e Valenkas?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3135.41,3135.94"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e What?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3135.94,3136.73"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDORI LAUB:\u003c/strong\u003e Valenkas?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3136.73,3137.39"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e Not valenkas. From-- from-- from-- uh, leather.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3137.39,3140.6"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e Boots?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3140.6,3141.23"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e Boots, yes, with [INAUDIBLE]. I put-- put there, and we succeeded in one month to store about 11 or 12 such different kinds of-- of-- of rifles in this kind, and we organized an underground group of about 18. Then we came-- boys. I was the youngster. I was, at that time, the age of 15, 15 and a half.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3141.23,3163.19"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The other, till the age of 18, 16, 17, like this. Of course, it wasn't-- we were formal students. It wasn't a political-- you know, in the big ghettos, the underground was organized on-- on political lines, let's say, the Zionist group, the Betar group, Bund group.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3163.19,3180.74"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then they-- here in the small townships like myself, it was a social group. One [INAUDIBLE] was [INAUDIBLE] from Bund, but we was-- no, no, no, but it wasn't based more on I-- I know you. You know me. I can speak with you openly. You can speak with me openly. We will-- not-- not-- not, nobody will tell somebody the third of this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3180.74,3199.67"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So such a group was organized. And one day, one of the boys, which was part of us, told us that his parents before, under the Pole school,  they had some guns officially. And then when the Soviets came, they hide the-- in the house where they lived, they put in-- in the wall two guns, and-- and it was the-- and believed that the guns are still there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3199.67,3225.69"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So two of our boys decided-- we decided that we'll go night, leave the ghetto at nighttime, and in the house, lived that time policemen, Lithuanian, but it was in the-- in the underground.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3225.69,3237.35"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDORI LAUB:\u003c/strong\u003e Cellar.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3237.35,3237.95"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e Cellar, yes. They succeeded to take out the two guns, brought to the ghetto. And then happened such a things. They were without holder-- holsters. Two of our boys next they decided they went-- in the-- in the small ghetto was an-- the old synagogue. Was they went on the-- on--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3237.95,3256.28"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLAWRENCE LANGER:\u003c/strong\u003e The attic?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3256.28,3258.22"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e Attics of the synagogues to prepare from-- and-- and holsters for-- for the guns. And one of the boys said, oh, if now would be a German, a German before me, and he didn't know that the gun is loaded. We didn't-- we did-- [INAUDIBLE] nobody was [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3258.22,3274.52"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And he just pulled the trigger, and he shot, and the other-- he hit him in the mouth, and the bullet went out on this side. The Lithuanian policeman, he was close down was the guard at the gate, close to the gate, they heard the shot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3274.52,3289.34"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"After an hour or two, the two boys were arrested, taken to the Gestapo. I was-- that day, we went to work. We still worked other places. When we came back, afternoon, back from work, we were told the story the two boys were arrested and the [INAUDIBLE] to the Gestapo, to the-- the Germans and the gendarmerie.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3289.34,3309.95"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we were afraid that on the German investigation, no heroes. The Gestapo investigation, no-- there are no heroes. They will tell exactly that there are a group of people with arms and so on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3309.95,3323.82"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we decided-- it was approximately April '42-- we decided we are-- nighttime, we were escaping from the ghetto. We took out the arms. We were, at that time, approximately about 20 boys and some girls among us. We escaped from the ghettos in the forests.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3323.82,3342.98"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then almost all the people of the ghetto, the few hundred people, came out-- it wasn't-- by the way, to escape from the ghetto was no problem. The guards were [INAUDIBLE] the gates. The problem is it wasn't worth it. Jews didn't escape. It was not where to escape.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3342.98,3358.8"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But in the first village, you would be handed over to the Germans [INAUDIBLE]. But all the people came around the house and said, OK, you will escape. They will tomorrow come, or sometimes, to ask after you, and then they will not find you. They will kill all of us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3358.8,3376.12"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then, we a group of-- of-- of youngsters-- the older people were-- they were our-- our family members, our teachers, our-- our-- people with whom they knew us from-- from when we were born, and they were all there. To leave means to endanger them. To stay means a certain death for us. What to do?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3376.12,3399.79"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We decided finally to remain, not to engender the-- the few hundred Jews. Then what to do with the arms? We couldn't-- they wouldn't permit us to-- nobody would permit us to take back the arms to the-- and keep in the house when-- when-- when we were leaving because the fact of finding a gun in some house, it would-- definitely-- definitely kill all the Jews in this, uh, house.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3399.79,3421.57"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So three of us, I myself, and two others, we took out all the-- together we went out to the ghetto. There was some, again, some very synagogue close to the-- old [INAUDIBLE] together, desolated. So we put there, and we returned to the ghetto.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3421.57,3436.04"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then for the next two, three days, when I heard steps approaching the house or something, oh, they are coming to take us. One day, a girl was walking in the Gestapo, which was cleaning the from ghetto, [INAUDIBLE]. She saw the two-- the wounded boys, that-- that he was wounded, not-- not killed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3436.04,3457.3"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Their names was developed. My schoolmates, my, uh, my age, Gershon Buck and Reuven [INAUDIBLE], that was the names of two of them. And she saw the how-- we're full of blood, investigated, tortured, and when she just-- when they passed close to her, she was clean there. One of them, the [INAUDIBLE], which wasn't wounded, told her in Yiddish, zog di khevre mir vil nisht ibergeben, tell the boys that we shall not--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3457.3,3488.05"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDORI LAUB:\u003c/strong\u003e Betray them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3488.05,3488.89"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e Bet-- betray them. After three days, the two boys and some Jewish girl, also our girlfriend, which was caught with non-Jewish documents outside the ghetto, they were taken to the Jewish cemetery in the morning and shot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3488.89,3503.11"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then we leave it in a ghetto  which all the people knew about us. Till-- till this case, nobody knew, uh, we were-- and, again, you know, among hundreds of people, maybe somebody can, uh, tell about the Germans-- tell the Germans.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3503.11,3517.61"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I must-- it was-- uh, my full admiration for the people. We've stayed for many, many months more in the ghetto. Nobody handed over to us, no-- nobody informed the Germans about us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3517.61,3534.58"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Uh, I-- when we finished the work there, we tried to find-- I worked on an-- it was called the tartak, when the Todt organization all-- it was the German Todt organization, which were-- they were actually building the roads and building-- they-- it-- in place where they were cutting the wood in some pieces and making from this blanks,(boards) yes?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3534.58,3562.8"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I was working there, and approximately to the end of summer '42, some part of Belarussia was annexed to Lithuania, to the Generalbezirk Lithuania. And there was some small [INAUDIBLE] there. So they brought about close to 8,500 Jews in the small ghetto for Swieciany. So it came with a ghetto with over 2,000 Jews.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3562.8,3592.28"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I tell you-- I'm telling this because when we were still in a small ghetto, we always were afraid when we shall escape if there are 300-- 300, 400 other people in the ghetto and only about half of them are working people. If a group of 20 people would disappear, and we wouldn't go to back, it would be [INAUDIBLE]. The German would find out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3592.28,3611.76"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But in a ghetto with 2,000 people, it was easier that we were replaced and all the time looked after some connections We heard that somewhere in Belarussia, partisans are working.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3611.76,3624.42"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then one day, two Germans which were of the Landwirtschaft, there was a group of Germans which were used, of German officers, which were in charge of exploiting the agricultural products because, actually, the German Army in-- in the Soviet Union was-- the food was based-- the supply of food was based on-- on local resources.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3624.42,3645.55"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So there were some such tool, Landwirtschaft officers, meaning culture-- agriculture officers. When they just went out from the towns, they were on a few kilometers from the town, they were killed by Soviet partisans, and--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3645.55,3659.52"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eCREW:\u003c/strong\u003e [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3659.52,3660.42"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eYITZHAK ARAD:\u003c/strong\u003e OK.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3660.42,3662.22"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/transcript/70138/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eCREW:\u003c/strong\u003e [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3662.22,3679.22167"}]},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Critical Edition [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eŚwięciany (Polish), Švenčionys (Lithuanian), Sventsyan (Yiddish) is a town located 72 kilometers northeast of Vilna. A part of the Russian Empire before World War I, it was incorporated into Poland in the interwar period and is now in Lithuania. In 1925 it had about 5,000 inhabitants of whom 2,750 were Jewish.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=34.51,54.78"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThere is no hard and fast definition of a \u003cem\u003eshtetl\u003c/em\u003e, the Yiddish word for a small town. The notion of a shtetl did not exist in Polish or Russian law. Jews differentiated between a \u003cem\u003eshtot\u003c/em\u003e (a city), a \u003cem\u003eshtetl\u003c/em\u003e (a small town), and a rural settlement, which was called a \u003cem\u003eyishev\u003c/em\u003e or \u003cem\u003edorf\u003c/em\u003e. Broadly speaking, a shtetl was a Jewish settlement large enough to support a basic network of communal institutions but small enough so that most inhabitants would recognize each other. On the eve of World War II, while about 25% of Polish Jewry lived in the five largest cities, about half still lived in 900 or so shtetls.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=74.08,110.37"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eArad means to say “in childbirth.”\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=129.99,157.64"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eZamość: a town founded in 1580 by Jan Zamojski, which Italian architects turned into one of the most beautiful towns in Poland. It is now a UNESCO World Heritage site. The Jewish community dated back to the founding of the city and in 1939 numbered 12,531 out of 28,873 inhabitants. Well known Jews who lived in Zamość include the revolutionary Marxist Rosa Luxemburg and the Yiddish writer Yitzhak Leibush Peretz. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=157.64,196.86"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eLublin was one of the oldest and most important Jewish communities in the old Polish Commonwealth and the Jewish community dates back to the 14th century. Located at the intersection of major trade routes, Lublin played a major role in Jewish life in pre-partition Poland, an economic hub, a center of Torah learning and the seat of the Council of the Four Lands, the key institution of Jewish autonomy in the Polish Commonwealth. Its importance declined somewhat after the partition of Poland, when it became part of the Russian empire. In the late 1930s, when the Rudnitsky family lived in Lublin, its 38,000 Jews constituted approximately 30% of the total population. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=157.64,196.86"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe Maharshal was the title that Jews gave to Rabbi Shlomo Luria (1510-1572), one of the great Torah scholars of pre-partition Poland. He is best remembered for his Talmudic commentary, Yam shel Shlomo, and for the yeshiva that he headed. That Arad’s father was asked to be hazzan in the Maharshal synagogue was a great honor, and it also underscored the key role of collective memory in Jewish Lublin.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=157.64,196.86"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eTarbut was a network of Zionist primary and secondary schools in pre-war Poland that, in addition to the basic state-mandated curriculum, stressed the teaching of Hebrew, Hebrew literature and the history of the Land of Israel. Its schools were especially popular in the so-called Kresy, the eastern provinces of Poland. In 1934-35, 37,000 students were enrolled in the Tarbut schools.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=216.97,235.69"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eYavneh was the school system of the Mizrakhi, the religious Zionists in Poland. In 1936, 16,000 students studied in more than 200 Yavneh schools.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=235.69,261.89"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe Hevra Kadisha, or burial society, was one of the most important organizations in the Jewish community. It ensured the strict observance of all Jewish rites from the moment of death until interment. The Hevra Kadisha often wielded a great deal of power, as it set burial fees, determined the location of the grave and often used its leverage to punish Jews who had been deemed negligent in performing their communal obligations by presenting the family with a hefty bill. In the interwar years, with the spread of secularization and radical politics, the Hevra Kadisha was often the focal point of sharp conflict. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=317.34,333.92"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eBy and large even assimilated Polish speaking Jews associated socially with other Jews rather than Poles. While there was a great deal of casual interaction between Jews and their non-Jewish neighbors in pre-war Poland, usually based on business relationships, Jews and Poles usually lived in separate social spheres. It is telling that the fastest growing Jewish newspapers in interwar Poland were in the Polish language, reflecting both the growing degree of acculturation and waning assimilation. The assimilationist ideal of being a “Pole of the Mosaic persuasion” had lost much of its attraction and viability in the interwar years, as Polish speaking Jews nonetheless saw themselves as Jews, not Poles. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=333.92,357.14"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/231","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe Bund (The General Union of Jewish Workers in Lithuania, Poland and Russia) was founded in Vilna in 1897. Between the wars, the Bund was a social democratic party that opposed the Zionists, the Orthodox Jews and the Communists and nurtured the vision of a socialist, democratic Poland where Jews would enjoy cultural autonomy and develop their culture in Yiddish. Based on the Jewish labor unions, the Bund enjoyed a marked surge in popularity in the late 1930s as it called on Polish Jews to fight back against antisemitic violence and defend their right to call Poland home. Jews also voted for the Bund because its major rivals had suffered serious setbacks. British immigration restrictions in Palestine compromised the appeal of Zionism while state-sponsored antisemitism after the death of Pilsudski in 1935, especially limits on kosher slaughter, compromised the Agudah and its strategy of collaboration with the Polish government. At the same time Stalin’s dissolution of the Polish Communist Party in 1938, along with the purge trials, dampened the appeal of the Soviet Union. In cooperation with the Left Labor Zionists (like Poyle Tsiyon), the Bund sponsored a nationwide network of secular Yiddish schools called the Tsysho. In 1934-35 there were 15,486 students in the Tsysho schools.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=357.14,377.87"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eHe-halutz was an association of labor Zionist youth movements that trained Jewish youth for agricultural work in kibbutzim in Palestine. Its membership surged to 41,000 by 1933 with almost 8000 young people undergoing special training (hachshara) in its various camps. He-halutz would become a major factor in the organization of Jewish armed resistance in Polish ghettos during World War II. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=377.87,413.09"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe Tachkemoni that Arad is referring to here is a high school gymnasium run by the Mizrakhi (Religious Zionists) and not to be confused with the religious seminary of the same name organized in 1920. The high school gymnasium combined religious training with a rigorous university education. For many years it was directed by the eminent Polish Jewish historian Dr. Mayer Balaban.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=430.01,477.86"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eIn August 1939, just before the German invasion, there was a sudden improvement in Polish-Jewish relations as Poles and Jews prepared to fight the common German enemy. Jews and Poles worked side by side digging trenches and preparing for war. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=478.0,504.05"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eOn September 6, Colonel Roman Umiastowski made a radio broadcast that urged all able-bodied males to leave Warsaw for eastern Poland, where the Polish army would build a new defense line. The broadcast sparked mass panic, as thousands of people jammed the roads heading east. Few had imagined that just six days after the invasion had begun, German tanks would be approaching the outskirts of Warsaw. But no sooner did the Polish government leave the city than Warsaw major Stefan Starzyński reversed the decision and announced that Warsaw would be defended. Thus began the siege of Warsaw, which lasted until the capitulation of September 27.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=585.17,607.71"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe intense German bombing and shelling ultimately caused 50,000 deaths in Warsaw, of whom one third were Jews. About a quarter of the city’s buildings were destroyed or damaged. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=727.24,747.85"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThese rumors were not totally unfounded. Initially, Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia had fixed the Vistula River as the demarcation line in their partition of Poland. In late September the line was set at the Bug river. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=747.85,773.31"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe Soviet army invaded Poland from the east on September 17 1939. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=773.31,789.64"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eWhile many other Jewish accounts recall an upsurge in Polish antisemitism in the wake of the capitulation, it is unclear to what degree one should generalize about Polish attitudes. The Israeli scholar Havi Dreyfuss has shown that it was only with the beginning of the mass annihilation of Polish Jewry in 1942 that Jewish perceptions of Poles took a sharp turn for the worse. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=830.92,863.61"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eWhat Arad actually says is \u003cem\u003eJews were thrown out \u003c/em\u003eof the queues.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=863.61,873.34"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe Tlomackie Synagogue in Warsaw, designed by the architect Leandro Marconi, and dedicated in 1878, had more than 2,500 seats. Funded by the Warsaw Jewish elite, the self-styled “Poles of the Mosaic Faith,” the synagogue was meant to symbolize Polish-Jewish brotherhood. Its first rabbi, Isaac Cylkow, was known for his Polish patriotism and his translation of the Bible into Polish. But Cylkow’s successors – Samuel Poznanski and Mojszesz Szorr – abandoned the synagogue’s original assimilationist vision in the face of growing Polish-Jewish tensions. While they preached and wrote in Polish, they advocated cultural Zionism and a distinct Jewish peoplehood. While Hasidic Jews called the Tlomackie a “German” or a “Reform” synagogue, its service was actually traditional. Its wealthy supporters could hire some of the best cantors in Europe, including Gershon Sirota (1874-1943) and Moshe Koussevitzky (1899-1966).\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=906.49,926.15"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe Nożyk Synagogue was dedicated in 1902 and is the only pre-war synagogue in present day Warsaw. Zalman and Rywka Nożyk donated the funds to build the synagogue, which attracted the more established Jews from the streets around Grzybowski Square. During the war the Germans turned the building into a warehouse and stable, but it largely survived and was extensively renovated in the 1970s and 1980s. The synagogue has 600 seats and is the major synagogue in Warsaw today. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=906.49,926.15"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe Moriah synagogue was founded in 1908. Its rabbi was the famous leader of the Mizrakhi in Poland, Isaac Nissenbaum (1868-1942), who was murdered in the Warsaw Ghetto in 1942. In the Ghetto, Nissenbaum reminded Jews of the distinction between Kiddush Ha-shem (sanctification of the Name) and Kiddush-ha-Hayyim (sanctification of life). If in the past Jews had willingly chosen death over conversion (sanctification of the Name), now, when the Nazis decreed the death of all Jews simply because of their Jewish birth, Jews had to make every effort to stay alive. “In the past,” he wrote, “our enemies demanded our soul and the Jew sacrificed his body in sanctifying God's name. Now the enemy demands the body of the Jew. That makes it imperative for the Jew to defend it and protect it.”\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=926.15,956.73"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eIn the very first months of the war, the German-Soviet demarcation line was not well guarded and tens of thousands of Jews crossed the Bug to the Soviet zone. But faced with appalling conditions on the Soviet side, many of the refugees actually sought to return to their former homes on the German side. Those who registered for repatriation to the German zone were often arrested by the NKVD and sent to the interior of the USSR. What seemed like a tragedy at the time actually allowed many to survive the war. By early 1940 the border had become much harder to cross. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=980.93,1001.02"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eArad here is touching on a very sensitive subject that quickly set the Poles of the region at loggerheads with many of their Jewish and Belarussian neighbors. Poles regarded the Soviets as a hated enemy and saw the invasion of September 17 as a stab in the back. Jews, on the other hand, if forced to choose, preferred the Soviets to the Germans, a stance that inflamed Polish-Jewish relations. That said, the degree of Jewish support for the Soviets varied greatly. Many Jews – businessmen, political leaders, rabbis – were arrested and even executed. Jews lost their businesses, Hebrew and religious education was outlawed and the overall standard of living declined. On the other hand, many Jews, especially from the poorer strata, could now find low and middle level posts in local administrations and young people had educational opportunities denied them under Polish rule. The sight of Jewish policemen and local officials infuriated Poles, Lithuanians and Ukrainians, who were quick to accuse the Jews of massive collaboration. Jews, for their part, often remarked that the choice between the Nazis and the Soviets resembled the choice between the death penalty and life imprisonment. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1001.02,1016.93"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eIt is important to emphasize that key positions in the Soviet zone of occupation went to the so-called Vostochniki, Soviet apparatchiks from the Soviet side of the pre-war border. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1062.47,1089.94"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eBy December 1939 the Soviets had tightened their surveillance of the demarcation line and sent many would-be refugees back to the German side. Malkinia was the last major railroad station in German-controlled territory on the Warsaw-Vilna railroad line. Later, in 1942, it became a major staging point for the death camp of Treblinka, just a few kilometers to the south.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1130.09,1152.78"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe Soviets occupied Vilna on September 19 1939. While Poles were resentful, most Jews welcomed the Soviet forces with relief. In October 1939, in exchange for the right to station Soviet troops in Lithuanian territory, the Soviets returned Vilna and the adjoining region to Lithuania, which had bitterly opposed Poland’s “occupation” of the city.  Between September 1939 and June 1940, Lithuania, still independent, attracted 10,000-15,000 refugees, including much of the political and cultural elite of Polish Jewry. Many were hoping  to leave Europe for Palestine, the United States and other destinations. In June 1940 the Red Army occupied the Baltic states of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia and ended their independence. Świȩciany was right on the border between the newly formed Lithuanian Soviet Republic and the Belarussian Soviet Republic.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1447.49,1464.37"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eWhile the Soviets closed down Tarbut schools and religious schools in the newly occupied areas, for a time they established a network of Yiddish language schools that taught the standard Soviet curriculum. What Arad seems to be saying is that, even though Yiddish was his native language, he had only studied in Tarbut and Mizrakhi schools before the war and therefore lacked training in formal, written Yiddish.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1556.07,1576.74"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eWhen the Soviets arrived, many members of He-halutz joined the Pionery and the Komsomol, Soviet youth organizations. But others, like Arad, tried, at some risk to themselves, to maintain clandestine Zionist activity.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1576.74,1599.66"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eAvraham Mapu (1808-1867), born near Kovno, was the first Hebrew novelist and a major figure in the Haskala in eastern Europe. His novels Ahavat Tsiyon and Ashmat Shomron were seminal works in the rise of a modern Hebrew literature. Hashomer, founded in 1909, was a Jewish self-defense organization whose task was to defend the first Jewish settlements in Palestine. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1638.01,1671.09"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eIt was virtually compulsory for students in Soviet schools between aged between 9 and 14 to join the Pioneers, the Communist youth organization. Those who were more ideologically dedicated, or out to make a career, then went on to join the Komsomol. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1689.39,1713.58"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eArad means to say “tracks.”\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1734.6,1742.69"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eAt midday that Sunday, June 22 1941, the Soviet Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Molotov gave millions of Soviet citizens their first news that Germany had attacked the Soviet Union. He ended his speech: “Our cause is just. Victory will be ours.” One should note that on that fateful day, it was Molotov, and not Stalin, who broke the news to the Soviet people.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1805.73,1825.7"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe last Soviet authorities left the city on June 24. More than one thousand Jews fled with the Red Army while 6,500 remained in the city. Lithuanian nationalists took control of Świȩciany, and the first German troops entered on July 1.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1880.78,1912.19"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe Soviets had incorporated the Lithuanian army into the Red Army as the 29th corps. These troops surreptitiously prepared to attack the retreating Red Army as soon as the German invasion began. In June and July 1941, they murdered many soldiers as well as Jews trying to flee to the Soviet interior.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=1938.32,1982.01"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThis should read “one day they caught.” On July 15 the Germans executed 100 Jews for alleged Communist activity. A German Ortskommandatur was established in the town as well as a local administration and police force, which were headed by Lithuanians.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2013.48,2035.56"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eIt was only on July 3 1941, 11 days after the outbreak of the war, that Stalin finally addressed the Soviet people. Although the Germans were inflicting massive defeats on the Red Army, Stalin’s speech nonetheless reassured many Soviet citizens that the nation still had a leader and was prepared to fight. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2152.71,2188.44"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe ghetto in Glubokoye was established in late October 1941, some weeks after Arad and his friends arrived. While mass shootings had decimated Lithuanian Jewry by December 1941, the Jews in neighboring Belarus had experienced relative quiet during this time. The German murder machine destroyed most of the ghettos there in the course of 1942.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2291.72,2313.01"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eOn the Jewish New Year, 1941 (September 21), a Jew burst into the synagogue, announced that a massacre was imminent and urged Jews to flee. Some young Jews, including Arad, left the ghetto. A few days later, on September 26, Germans and Lithuanian police surrounded the ghetto and led all the Jews to a nearby field where a selection took place. 170 Jewish craftsmen. along with their families were allowed to return to the ghetto while the rest were sent to the Poligon, a Polish military camp a few kilometers from the city. Jews from other towns were also concentrated there. For two weeks the Jews were locked in windowless sheds in frightful conditions. On October 7 and 8 the killers of Einsatzkommando 3, along with Lithuanian collaborators, murdered many thousands of Jews. In his report Karl Jäger, the commander of Einsatzkommando 3, mentioned 3,726 Jews shot by October 9. Jewish sources cite 8000 victims.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2415.01,2433.06"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eIn these regions of Eastern Europe most of the local craftsmen, tailors, shoemakers, carpenters, blacksmiths, tanners etc. were Jewish. Thus, as the German drive stalled before Moscow in the fall of 1941, the Wehrmacht and the German civil authorities stepped in to foil SS plans to wipe out the entire Jewish population. They wanted to preserve a minimal Jewish labor pool to meet essential logistical needs. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2435.0,2461.69"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eArad is actually saying Belarussia (Belarus), not Russia.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2556.31,2573.09"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe Einsatzgruppen were busy killing the Jews in the Baltic region as well as the front-line areas of the east in 1941. They waited until the frozen ground had thawed in the spring of 1942 to begin the murder of the Jews in the former Polish parts of Belarus.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2573.09,2589.68"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eAfter the massacre at the Poligon about 400 Jews – craftsmen and their families – were allowed to remain in the ghetto. Confined to a small space around the former synagogue court, surrounded by barbed wire, these Jews “adopted” young people like Arad’s sister who had escape the massacre. Later, deportations of Jews from surrounding towns into the ghetto raised its population to almost 3,000 Jews. There was a five-man Judenrat, headed by Moshe Gordon.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=2753.03,2782.07"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/265","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe largest Jewish resistance group in the Warsaw Ghetto, the ZOB (The Jewish Fighting Organization), was based on smaller fighting groups organized by political party and youth group. On the other hand, the United Partisan Organization (FPO) in the Vilna Ghetto was based on groups that included members of different parties.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3163.19,3180.74"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eWhat Arad seems to mean here is “under Polish rule.”\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3199.67,3225.69"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/267","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eWhat Arad seems to be saying is “when we were living in a ghetto.”\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3503.11,3517.61"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421/annotation_set/1505/annotation/268","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eWhat Arad seems to be saying is “boards.”\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66421#t=3534.58,3562.8"}]}]},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 3 - open-uri20191231-18341-rco3pu.mov"]},"duration":3770.845,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/066/422/small/open-uri20191231-18341-rco3pu_1577799541.jpg?1577781541","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-fortunoff.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/066/422/original/open-uri20191231-18341-rco3pu.mov?1577781540","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3770.845,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CREW: We're on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=4.64,6.76"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: April 18, '01. This is an interview with Professor Yitzhak Arad for the Fortunoff Video Archive for Holocaust Testimonies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=6.76,19.94"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Now, we're in the summer of 1942.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=19.94,21.96"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: '43.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=21.96,22.3"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Before you begin, I would like you to just respond to one question. By the summer of '42, several of the death camps were already in operation. The deportations from the Warsaw ghetto were beginning. Did you know anything at all about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=22.3,37.49"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: We have no information of what was going on in-- in Poland and [INAUDIBLE] government. We had-- we had the-- the Jews were so isolated in the ghettos, [INAUDIBLE] that we didn't know what happened in the-- in s-- in other places. We-- what we knew, we knew that the Jews in Lithuania and also in Byelorussia, and the nearby towns are physically-- is going-- mass-- ma-- mass murders of Jews, of total extermination. But from death camps existing of that? We did nothing, knew at that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=37.49,69.91"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Did you know about the 9th Fort at Kovno at that time ?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=69.91,73.06"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: No, we didn't know the name.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=73.06,74.29"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: [INAUDIBLE]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=74.29,74.74"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: But we knew that the Kovno-- all the Jews were murdered.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=74.74,77.09"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=77.09,77.47"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: But not-- not-- don't, the details. So, uh--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=77.47,80.94"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: The stations, Kol Yerushalaim or BBC [INAUDIBLE] information?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=80.94,85.15"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: No, no, no, no. It-- we hardly could get some information from, uh, from German newspapers that people were-- worked in-- in different places can-- could-- could have an opportunity to-- to-- to talk to see the headlines, even sometimes more. And from, uh, local people, we w-- worked together, some information, but not, uh-- we knew the general developments of the war. We knew what as-- what was going on. We knew about German defeats [INAUDIBLE] German victories. This-- this-- this, uh, we knew.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=85.15,113.72"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So in summer '40-- the-- the end of summer, or the fall of '42, we actually-- the ghetto was enlarged. We looked all the time after connection with Soviet partisans. We heard that sometimes that Soviet partisans were active in Byelorussia. I mentioned that, uh, close to our township were killed two German, uh, Wirtschaft inspectors, uh, by a partisan small group headed by-- one was called Markov.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=113.72,140.02"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Markov was a teacher in the Yiddish school from Święciany. And, uh, he was a teacher of some of-- of the-- of the-- my friends who now are on the ground group. And they knew that he wa-- he was a communist, who in Polish time, was sitting in the-- in a p-- prison. During the Soviet period, he was a dep-- an, um, representative to the Supreme Council, Soviet. Verkhovny Sovet as from the local people. When the German army attacked, he escaped with the Soviet [INAUDIBLE] Soviet, uh, units. But then he was sent back to organize the partisan movement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=140.02,172.99"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mention his name, because he played quite a big role, uh, all the contacts with the partisans for Vilna ghetto, and also from our town-- township. But, uh, first, was hard to con-- to establish such contact. Some of our-- from our group, we went outside, in some villages to ask people, no contacts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=172.99,191.77"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then, in any case, we decided, uh, that winter approached. Winter-- to go to the forest was, uh, it-- it was hard to do. Hard, very tough to-- to survive in forest, winter-time. But we decided whatever will happen springtime, if we should have contacted partisans, I know we shall-- we are going to escape from the ghetto and start, as a Jewish group, of partisan warfare.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=191.77,213.09"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Uh, so, uh, w-- it-- this way, I would say way-- by working, by, uh, organizing our-- our group, by trying to get more arms, it was still spring, uh, '42--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=213.09,224.41"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[RINGTONE CHIMING]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=224.41,226.55"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"--'43. Spring '43 happened such a thing. The German announced that they're going to liquidate to ghetto Svencionys and some other ghettos like Ashmyany and other places which were in East of Lithuania. The partisan activity from Byelorussia was very close to this area. And they decided that, uh, Jews may escape from the ghettos. They're going to liquidate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=226.55,251.41"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then they told to the Jews they're going to-- the Jews from these ghettos will be brought to Vilna ghetto and to Kovno ghetto. And in order that Jews should believe that it's not just, then, some rouse, that they're going-- they're going, actually, to-- to kill them, the whole operation of transport transferred the Jews from Svencionys into Ashmyany ghetto, will take-- will take-- be carried out by Jewish police from Vilna ghetto.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=251.41,274.93"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Gens was the head of the Vilna ghetto. He came to Svencionys. He spoke with the people. Then a group of-- of, uh, such policemen, started to, uh, came to Svencionys. They were just preparing the transfer of the Jews to Vilna ghetto.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=274.93,291.68"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We, uh, in March '43, we decided it's-- the winter is the end, beginning of spring, we are escaping from the ghetto. And actually, in March '43, we-- a group of about 25 boys, our whole underground group, escaped from the ghetto.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=291.68,309.4"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Again, as I say, it was no-- no problem to escape from the ghetto. The ghetto wasn't-- was closed with barbed wire, but it was no problem to-- it was on the outskirts of the t-- township, immediately, and behind the barbed wire was all the open field. And then you could go. And we decided to-- to go to the-- for the Hoduciszki Forest, which was approximately 20, 25 kilometers from our native town.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=309.4,330.61"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I would say that, uh, we were lucky, because, uh, we lived in an area where-- where were large forests close to our ghetto. The basic-- the-- the-- I would say the idea of partisan wa-- warfare could only came up in such ghettos where there were forests in and-- and such in, uh, vi-- vicinity. Otherwise, such idea couldn't come up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=330.61,359.93"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, Warsaw Ghetto, they never spoke about going to partisans, because-- because around Warsaw, the was no-- no forest.  But in, uh, my nat-- native town or in Vilna, in other ghettos where there were f-- forests, where, in-- in a distance, they-- they could, after one or two nights of walking, you could reach them, it was a possibility.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=359.93,376.99"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we left. But we still kept contact with, uh, with the-- with the ghetto, because we just wanted to know what happened, so some of us are come back. [INAUDIBLE] in the ghetto, among the Jewish parti-- policemen which came from Vilna, was a g-- a partisan were members of the Jewish underground in Vilna ghetto. In Vilna ghetto, was a very large Jewish underground called FPO, Fareynikte Partizaner Organizatsye, United Partisan Organization, headed by one, uh, Jew called Yitzhak Wittenberg , which-- it's a long story about him; Abba Kovner, which is, uh, a poet, and, uh, lived in Israel later.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=376.99,418.03"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, actually, we were in contact with them, and what they-- before we left in the forests, they proposed us not to go into the forest, but when the whole ghetto is transferred to Vilna, to go to Vilna, to join the underground, and to join to them for the-- they-- they, uh, they were planning an uprising inside the ghetto. This was their-- their-- their idea was an uprising in the ghetto. And only after the uprising, or during the uprising, to try to break through from the ghetto, to go into the forest, and to take with them as many Jews as possible. This was, I would say, the ideological background of-- of the Vilna Underground, the so-called FPO.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=418.03,460.49"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We-- we, of course, left. We didn't accept this line. But still, we kept contact when we came back to the ghetto, from time to time, to see-- we still kept contact with those policemen. What we proposed them, there is no-- no way to-- no reason why to continue to-- to plan the uprising in the ghetto. Let them move-- let them leave the ghetto and go into the forests. This was actually.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=460.49,486.6"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The policemans told us, look, we have no authority to decide about them. Let's, two or three of us, if you come with us to Vilna, to meet our leadership, and, uh, discuss with them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=486.6,499.58"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So it was decided that I, myself, and one other of our boys, called Yeshike Gertman, Yeshayahu. In Yiddish, Shike Gertman. We shall go to Vilna to meet the leadership of the underground. How to go to the Vilna? It is-- by the Nazi-occupied areas, [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=499.58,517.89"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"OK. When the-- all the Jews will be transferred, the transport of the Jews will be went-- sent to Vilna, to Kovno Ghetto, we should join this transport. And then, in Vilna, we shall meet the underground. And then there, we shall-- we planned a way how to return, later return.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=517.89,534.28"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When the transports leave, in the 4 of April, '43, this is the day when the transport from Vilna, and the same day from Ash-- Ashmyany and other place, for-- to ghettos, 4,000 Jews will be transferred, part of them to Vilna, a small part to Vilna Ghetto, some to labor camps around Vilna, most of them to ghetto of Kaunas, Kovno. So the transport, in the historiography, which was-- which was called, later, the Kovno transport, because this was the final station.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=534.28,565.87"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"OK. We-- I was-- we were in the forest. We decided the 4 of April, we should come to the railway station of Novo Svencionys. It first-- the-- the station, the train, was 12 kilometer form Svencionys in the city called Novo Svencionys. We shall come there, join the transport, travel.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=565.87,585.49"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I remember, uh, like today, the 4th of April, '43, a nice spring day, sunny. We were walking about 30 kilometers, nighttime, I and Shike Gertman reached the railway station. And we saw the following pictures. Jews are coming from Svencionys, part by foot, part with, uh, horse-drawn, uh, cars. Sick people, old people. No German soldier. No Lithuanian policeman. Everything quiet. Jews are arriving. The train where was the cargo t-- cargo, uh, cars, wagons, entering, each of them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=585.49,627.39"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The first wagon, the first car, was for the Jewish police, for the Vilna Ghetto, [INAUDIBLE]. And all the others-- I don't remember how many. There were 40 or 50 such, uh, wagons. We-- both of us were armed. We have sa-- every one of us had a gun, and then, uh, and then, uh, gr-- hand-grenade on us. Uh, we approached the policemen which were in contact with us. Almost half of them are members of our underground.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=627.39,656.01"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"OK, told them-- they told us that the train had to move in the evening, and the morning, will reach Vilna. So they told us, OK, enter one of-- of the, uh, cars. When we will reach Vilna, immediately, we shall join to us, and we shall take you both separately into ghetto, because they knew that we are armed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=656.01,675.89"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"OK. Just after noon, with all the people [INAUDIBLE] in-- in-- in the trains, came some local, uh, railway worked, and told the Jews policeman that they have an order to close all the wagons from outside. You know, the closure from outside.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=675.89,693.06"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"OK. So the-- in some way, I said to my friend, look, I-- I don't like to travel in, um, such enclosed car. So I told the Jewish policeman, our-- our contacts, look, we don't like it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=693.06,707.78"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So he told me, you know, you know, enter the wa-- wagon, where we are traveling. And when we all will reach Vilna, the first will take you in the ghetto, and w-- with you, they will not search in the entrance of the ghetto, because accompanied by a policeman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=707.78,723.86"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My sister was, all the time, in Vilna Ghetto. Because from Święciany they sent, few weeks, before a group of Jews to-- to Vilna Ghetto. Again, this gave some insurance that the Jews are actually going to Vilna Ghett-- because they knew that some Jews were already sent to Vilna Ghetto.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=723.86,741.33"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We reached-- we fell asleep. We were very tired. All that night-- all night traveling. Early in the morning, what, 5 o'clock, reached Vilna. And immediately, one of the policemen took both of us. We went to the streets, the empty streets of the-- of-- of Vilna, and to the gate, entered. And he brought us-- I knew where my sister was staying there. So he brought us to-- we wanted to continue to sleep.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=741.33,763.81"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We fell asleep there, again. About 8 o'clock, 9 o'clock, I heard some noises-- some-- some outside the-- the-- the street, some-- some-- n-- not natural noises. We got up. Asked, what happened?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=763.81,777.46"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then we heard-- after we left the train, the Jews were closed in all the wagons. German and Lithuanian police came, arrested the whole Jewish-- Jew-- Jewish policemen, took them to the Gestapo. Together, with Gens.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=777.46,792.19"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"With Gens, came in the morning to the station in order to receive. And the train-- some, two, three wagons, were sent to a labor camp, [INAUDIBLE] which were [INAUDIBLE]. All the ot-- other train was taken in the direction of Kovno, but not to Kovno. Taken to Po-- Ponary, the place where the Vilna Jews were killed. And then they opened each, and shoot the Jews.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=792.19,814.81"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And this, this is what the story, how they-- they roused the Jews that, uh, that, uh, no Lithuanian or Germans-- it should-- should believe this, the story of-- of-- at that time, close to 4,000 Jews were shot this way, from Svencionys, and from second transport, came from the city called Ashmyany. Again, there Jews were from not only from Ashmyany. There were Jews from [? Soly ?], from other, uh, ghettos in this transport.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=814.81,836.78"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: And do you think the Jewish police who helped round them up knew what was going to happen to them?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=836.78,840.02"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: No, no, no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=840.02,840.46"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=840.46,840.9"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: No, nothing. Nothing. It was just--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=840.9,842.05"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Gens didn't know-- Gens didn't know--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=842.05,843.03"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: No, Gens-- Gens get-- get-- get nothing. And, uh, so this was, of course, a shock for us and for-- for all the Jews. And, uh, just going back to my personal story, then. Uh, we were taken-- this, the next day, to meet with the leadership of the Jewish underground. I didn't-- it took us some way, not to know exactly where-- where the place is. I don't even know whether-- uh, with whom we met. I think we met, maybe, with Yitzhak Wittenberg and others, but again, that time, I didn't recognize.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=843.03,878.23"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We had a talk with them. Again, they proposed, in spite of the fact that the Jews were-- the transport were killed, still, the idea of the uprising ghetto. This is our-- their, I mean, idea. And-- and the time is approaching very close. You see, they're killing Jews, maybe. Please, leave the forest. Come to Vilna. Join us, the uprising.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=878.23,899.43"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Our story was, we didn't agree then. And, uh, OK. Just-- we left the meeting after a day or two days. We prepared to leave the ghetto the following way. We prepared the local river (railway workers)walkers , which walked on the river. They have some armbands called [? [NON-ENGLISH]. ?] Deutsche Reicsbahn","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=899.43,919.36"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We-- before we le-- went to Vilna, found-- get some such two bands, and we plan that we shall leave the ghetto, go to the railway, just put on this-- two armbands. Again, no-- neither myself nor the other were so typical Jewish, which were-- could be easily recognized. And we shall try-- try, with one of the trains, to go back to Novo Svencionys, and there, to, by foot, into the forest. This was, approximately, the plan.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=919.36,946.36"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then, [INAUDIBLE] in the Vilna Ghetto, I and my friend were arrested by the Jewish police. By a-- brought a police station called by the commander of this police station, was one man called [? Levus. ?] He was known in the Vil-- in the Vilna Ghetto as a very, uh, very unpleasant person.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=946.36,967.03"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We were arrested. And he told us, for-- look. We know that you were in the forest your partisans, and you came to the ghetto. We want-- we should nothing do to you. Just give us your arms.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=967.03,977.5"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We didn't give him our arms. We-- we-- we left in the underground to-- before we are leaving. I told him, look, we had-- yes, we were in the forests, but the forest was very hard, and we came together in order to-- to stay in the ghetto. This was-- was our answer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=977.5,993.77"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We were investigated hard. And then we were sent-- in the ghetto, was Lidzka Street, was a prison, pr-- prison-- ghetto prison. This was called the Lidzka prison. Lidzka was in some narrow, small, uh, road in the-- in the ghetto. And this was on the-- on the border. It was also an-- an entrance from the ghetto, and was also an exit from outside the ghetto. If you-- if somebody was handed over to the Germans, this was the exit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=993.77,1018.78"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we were put into the prison one or two days. And we decided, Shike, even if we're taken to the other side, we shall-- again, we shall try to-- to run away. Uh, what happen? Let them shoot us [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1018.78,1032.31"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"After t-- one or two nights there, night, and we heard that the door was open. Took us out, back to the ghetto. The Jewish in underground interferes-- interfered. And they had contacts-- Gens had contact with-- the head of the Vilna Ghetto, Jacob Gens, had contacted the Jewish underground. It's-- it was a very interesting personality, but it's, uh, in my book, Ghetto in Flames, I-- I wrote about him quite a lot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1032.31,1058.49"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we were released. Then, we stayed a few days more in the ghetto, and then one-- one Sunday, we went outside the ghetto with a group of workers with the-- with the yellow star. Then, two of us jumped-- both of us jumped some courtyard. It was early in the morning, Sunday. Took off-- uh, took away the yellow star. And just went along-- walked in direction of the-- of the railway station.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1058.49,1084.52"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was a Sunday. I just remembered the day when it went-- I-- in the ghetto, ve-- had a very bad mood after the killing of the-- of the transport, uh, all the hopes that the working ghetto will survive, will leave. But killing the 4,000 Jews, the-- the-- it was, then, a terrible blow for-- to those who believed that, in the meantime, we can-- maybe we survive-- we shall survive by working, by being a productive, uh, ghetto. This was the idea of the Judenrat. Be productive. The Germans will keep us as long as, uh, they-- they need us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1084.52,1119.78"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So-- and then, in the streets, Sunday, people walked to the church, nice clothes, couples, uh, together, from-- from the houses. Had some music, even, from the house. It was just like from-- from the-- from the abyss to-- to-- to-- to-- to another world, from gehenom to the--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1119.78,1140.0"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We reached the railway station. But this one, it was in very-- a l-- a lot of movement and policemen, uh, guards, trains, guards. We decided to wait till the nighttime. Nighttime, we shall enter the station. We'd put up-- we put the two [? [NON-ENGLISH] ?] band. (DR) And there was an, uh, transport. Not a-- a cargo transport which went in the direction to the north, Novo Svencionys. We jumped on such an, uh, cargo. Station, you know, close-- in each cargo, some-- in some of the cargo cars, there is some small, uh, how you call it, uh--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1140.0,1173.17"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: Cabins.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1173.17,1173.75"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Cabins, some small. So just a cabin, we jumped. Reached Novo Svencionys. And then the same night, we see it to reach Svencionys. Where to stay in Svencionys? The parents of one of our friends-- he's called Baritt Yochai, Baris Yochai. He's-- too, he lives, till now, in Los Angeles, here. Uh, his parents were very close with the Tatars. The Tars-- the Tatars, they worked on, uh, you know, on leather fact-- how it's called? Uh, It's a factory with--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1173.75,1204.46"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Tannery?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1204.46,1204.95"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Tannery, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1204.95,1205.5"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1205.5,1206.08"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: So they gave-- in-- the Tatars gave him a hiding. And we knew exactly where he was hiding. So we came to this Tatar house. We stayed all the day on the-- in this house, with-- with the parents. And next night, we intended to reach the forest with 25 kilometers, to, uh, our- the base of our-- should be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1206.08,1229.36"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's happened, next night we went back, the forest. On the way to the forest, just walking there, uh, in some ways, some trails, suddenly, two people came out f-- in our direction. We saw them first, so we jumped to the side, and we let them go. And we walked.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1229.36,1247.93"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We reached, early in the morning, the forest. Entered the place where the base-- we came to the bases. We saw nobody there, more. [INAUDIBLE]. Some of the-- of the-- of the-- of the-- we-- to build some-- some-- some-- some tents. And, like, people escape from-- s-- something happened there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1247.93,1270.09"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we did not know what happened. Alone, two boys, in the [INAUDIBLE] forest, without knowing what happened with our other, uh, whole group. But then, we remembered-- night, we met two-- two people going in the direction of Święciany. It was maybe the son of-- of-- of the Baris Yochai, and maybe he-- and was another family, also. Maybe some family. All the-- in hiding, Święciany, which the-- the-- he was us, the-- the-- the-- the-- the-- they hid their boy. Maybe they went back to see what happened to the parents.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1270.09,1307.53"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When we were so, sitting close to the deserted camp, suddenly we had some-- some steps, maybe somebody approaching the-- the place. We too- took-- we jumped to the side. And then we saw one came out-- one of the group. It was called Shimon Levine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1307.53,1326.19"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Oh, we were happy. We-- uh, somebody came. We asked what happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1326.19,1330.23"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So it was, look, I don't know exactly what happened. I know-- yes, I know that the Germans, the Lithuanians discovered the place of the base. Somebody-- local people, uh, informed them. And just before the Germans came, they succeeded, uh, they heard the approaching German. They succeeded to escape. But where are they? I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1330.23,1348.34"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He just left in-- a few hours before this happened. He left to a nearby village to bring some food. So he also doesn't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1348.34,1357.82"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"To cut the s-- story shorter, we decided one of us will go back to Svencionys, to the parents. Ma-- maybe the two boys which went-- and it was-- happened exactly. So we went back to w-- we went to the Tatars. We-- we stayed over-- during the day. Turned out that-- that one of the boys came to see the fathers. And they told him that we are on the way there, to the forest. So-- and they understand that we shall not find them, so they waited us to come back. And actually, we returned to our group.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1357.82,1386.44"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We were acting for about two months. And--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1386.44,1389.61"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: You found the rest of the group?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1389.61,1390.97"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: What? Yes. We met in another place, and, uh-- we looked after, all the time, again, to meet some Soviet Partisans, because our idea was to join Soviet Partisans. As Jews, it was very hard to operate, because when we entered-- you cannot operate as partisans if you don't have support of local p-- local people, local population. I wouldn't say you need the support of all the population, but at least you need-- part of the population, you should-- support us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1390.97,1420.16"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You need the support for inter-- information on the German authorities who were coming to the forest. Local people kn-- knew. You should-- you need the local people w-- wouldn't say the Germans, where you are. The local people always knew, very well, the forest. They went to get wood. They went to collect, uh, forest, uh, fruits. They-- they were-- they went-- a young boy went with the cow-- the cow to the-- to-- to-- to-- to the pasture there. So they always knew where you are. So if the were not friendly, they will inform the-- the Germans.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1420.16,1454.09"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So it was very hard. When we entered the village to take food, immediately after, half an hour, somebody was in pursuit, some Germans or some Lithuanian police behind us. Or sometimes ambushers put on the way between the village and the forest, before we succeeded.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1454.09,1468.73"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So one time, we succeeded. Second time, we could succeeded to evade such an encounter. But, uh, the third or fourth time you-- you-- you went, you came into ambush-- ambusher, or they-- they reached you by-- by you went by foot, and they were traveling-- not by cars. By-- by horses and so on. So they could always-- there were more mobile than-- than-- than you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1468.73,1492.01"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, uh, one day we met a group of three, four Soviet Partisans who went for mining some railway sta-- railway between Vilna to Dvinsk, Dyneburg. And actually, they-- we joined them. And they brought us on-- going back from the operation, we went together with them, to their bases, which was in the Kazyany forests. It was about 20, 30 kilometers, more, to the east. Larger force than the-- than the Hoduciszki forest that we were before.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1492.01,1524.39"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And this was-- they belonged to a group called Chapayevskiy Otryad, unit in the name of Chapayev. Chapayev is an-- legendary name, heroic name from this-- from the revolution, uh, commandos and partisans that time, which was part of a brigade called Voroshilov Brigade. And the commander was Markov. The man which was the teacher of-- of Święciany, which my-- our boys knew him, being their teacher.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1524.39,1551.88"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, we joined them, the whole group. But then half of-- we were-- not all of us had our arms. So about 15 of us had the arms they left. And about 10 of us, they thought, OK, you have to go to find the arms. We cannot accept you without arms. They gave them one otrezanka.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1551.88,1572.7"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was a terrible shock of us, because non-Jews were accepted without arms, and go find, uh, arms.  You [INAUDIBLE]-- if you were sent to be-- to search, it's almost like to-- you were sentenced to death, maybe, when-- when you are-- meet partisans, and took away-- and they send you to-- to without arms, to get arms.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1572.7,1592.31"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: Now, Markov taught in the Yiddish school. Was he Jewish himself?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1592.31,1594.48"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1594.48,1594.92"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1594.92,1595.09"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: He was Russian. But he was married to a Jewish woman. She is now-- she-- she was in Israel. I don't know if she's alive. She-- he passed away, Markov, years-- years ago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1595.09,1605.42"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, but Markov wasn't-- Markov was in other places, the commander. But this was his-- his, uh, Chapayevskiy Otryad.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1605.42,1613.96"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"OK. We started to partisan activities, to-- to-- to ambush roads, to-- to-- to-- to, uh, attack some garrisons. And, uh, one day, when I was staying on a guard duty, in the forest, I was informed that some Lithuanian partisan parachute units which was parachuted somewhere more to the east, should come to Kazyany forest to establish a basis, to organize Lithuanian partisan activities in Lithuania. And they should come approximately when I was on the guard duty. So there was saw a grou-- if you feel-- if you see a group of 10, 15 people coming in direction of-- of our bases in the forest, stop them. And then when-- you will be changed, and a new guard will come, you will take them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1613.96,1662.31"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So that time, it happened exactly. I was on guard. I took-- fr-- from out-- from out of the forest, came out a group, 15 people. All of them with, uh, with, uh, automatic weapons, with guns, with PPSh. Uh, for-- in our unit, only the commander of Chapayev-- uh, you only hear them, automatic, uh, weapon. All the others had simple rifle-- rifles. They were very good, uh, parachuters that came with all the modern arms, with-- with, uh, one of them has an, also, an, uh, wireless, uh, contact with Moscow. So it--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1662.31,1698.61"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When we were talking, before I was, uh, relieved, I told them, you know that I have been here-- I have-- we have some contact with some underground communist group operating Lithuania. Then, I must go back to some story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1698.61,1717.87"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When we were in the ghetto, two Jewish girls were in hiding by a Lithuanian journalist, in Novo Svencionys. Then, when the ghetto was established, and it was, uh, they went back together. And they joined our underground group. And they told us about this man which wasn't-- which was an-- an communist, Lithuanian. And they have all the same small group of Lithuanians which are star-- organize themselves as, uh, underground activities.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1717.87,1751.71"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we were in contact with him, because when we looked in the ghetto, we looked after additional arms. We tried, through such contacts, to get some-- to buy or to get some other arms.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1751.71,1762.72"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I told them this, that I have some contacts, they jumped like-- like-- like-- like, from joy, what happened. Look, the Lithuanians collaborated with the Germans. This was-- which was-- very few, few, were, uh, communists. Very few. They, in Moscow, when they were parachuted, they heard-- they knew something, that some small group exists, somewhere. And one of the duties that they had been-- when they were parachuted to Lithuanian, there was to find out some contacts. They want, also, to show that not all Lithuanians are German collaborators.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1762.72,1799.24"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The head of this group, of the 20 or 15 people, the group, the head of them was a man called Sumauskas. He later was the President of Lithuanian Soviet Republic. Sumauskas. His nickname in Partisan was Casimir. His deputy was one man called Yurgis. Yurgis was a Jew which was called [? Ziminas. ?] Again, a Jewish communist. They escaped, there. He was his de-- deputy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1799.24,1826.77"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And just then, when I told them, we went back to my-- to our bases. They met with our commander of-- of our unit, of our Chapayevskiy Otryad. And then-- then I was called to the commander. And he asked, look, do you want to be transferred to-- to the Lithuanian group?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1826.77,1852.49"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I told him, look, I am in partisan. Whatever you will tell me, I will do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1852.49,1857.81"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"OK. If so, they want you to them. They even had the right, because they had-- I was c-- considered a Lithuanian citizen, because Święciany was part of Lithuania, and so they [INAUDIBLE] the right, Lithuanian citizens, to transfer to them, to show that there are more Lithuanians, uh, active against them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1857.81,1876.33"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I gave back my rifle to the head, to my unit. I came to them. Immediately, they brought with them additional weapons. And this, first, they had gotten PPSh, which only in the Chapayev unit, only the commander had. In the [INAUDIBLE] partisan, the-- the kind of the weapons you have it, it-- it gave you-- [LAUGHS] you are different, uh--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1876.33,1894.81"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Status.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1894.81,1895.39"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Status, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1895.39,1896.23"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1896.23,1896.61"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: This. And, OK, after a week, I was sent to contact, in Nowe Święciany, this-- his, name, the Lithuanian, was called Kozlowski. Kazlauskas is the-- the Lithuanian communist I told. To contact Kazlauskas. How we went, we left the bases with about nine-- nine of the, uh, group. Three went some area near Kovno. Three went in [INAUDIBLE] Shavl area.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1896.61,1925.77"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the two which went with me, they came to or-- organized-- to start organize S-- post-Soviet elements in the Svencionys area. We were the-- the two were the former commander of the militia in Nowe Święciany, one of them, which escaped and came back. And the second was the-- the secretary of the communist party of the area.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1925.77,1951.45"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I w-- went with them. Their duty was to find contact with local people which whom they remember were pro-Soviet, you know, from the time where they were. And I had the duty to-- to contact, uh, Kazlauskas.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1951.45,1967.89"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So first of all, I-- I-- we came to the area, Nowe Święciany, it was just, uh, sometimes they knocked on the door of some peasant women who was-- received by the Soviets, a new land, and some was pro-Soviet. And then the peasant happened-- opened the door in the night. Whom did they see? The commander of the militia and secretary of the communist party.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1967.89,1987.99"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Which, it was two years later. It was, uh, '43, J-- June, July, and this was, uh, Soviet Army retreated, it was, uh, June '41. Such-- again, I don't have the-- the-- the-- the-- the ability to-- to-- to such-- to-- to describe such meetings, but it was something very, very-- the shock to meet them, and then-- then-- then-- and the relation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=1987.99,2011.54"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then was I the Sunday, next Sunday, I should go in the city. By Sunday-- Sunday, people, the peasants of the village, go to the church. So I will, uh, move it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2011.54,2021.47"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I went with short, uh, trousers, a white blouse, gun behind this. And I went-- they-- they, too, remained in the forest, about 4 kilometers from this-- from Nowe Święciany. And I went on the way. Then, I saw a horse-drawn cart is going, an old lady with her s-- with a son or grandson, a lady, grandson, going to the church.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2021.47,2045.85"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And [INAUDIBLE]. So I stopped them and asked them in-- in fluent Polish, maybe I can-- they can take me to Nowe Święciany?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2045.85,2053.79"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"OK, OK. Enter.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2053.79,2055.46"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, you know, they were sitting on some straw. If you know how the horse-drawn-- they sit with the horse before [INAUDIBLE] seat. And I sat back-to-back with them, you know? Back to back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2055.46,2065.99"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What were they talking among themselves? They're talking that, you know, [INAUDIBLE] the lady told to her son, yesterday night, in this and this village, three partisans were. Three. One Russian, one Lithuanian, and one żydek. Żydek mean Jew. Exactly the places where we were. And just like that, local people know ev-- exactly where we were. [INAUDIBLE]. The-- the wireless phone among them, walks. [CHUCKLES]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2065.99,2093.53"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was just, uh, to-- and I was sitting back to back, and listening the whole story, exactly where we were and everything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2093.53,2099.98"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We reached Nowe Święciany-- we reached Nowe Święciany. I told them, thank you very much. And I went to house of Kozlowski, where-- the Lithuanian.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2099.98,2108.41"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was in-- on st-- one floor-- one r-- a small house. I entered some-- some courtyard. I knocked on the door. No answer. I knocked on the door. No answer. Nobody answers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2108.41,2120.29"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then, the neighbor house-- w-- a lady opens the-- the door, looked at me. I asked her-- uh, sorry-- uh, in Polish, gdzie tutaj pan Kozłowski? Where is Mr. Kozlowski?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2120.29,2132.83"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She looked at me, and [INAUDIBLE] didn't answer for nothing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2132.83,2136.94"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What is the story? The Germans in Vilna-- maybe the story of Wittenberg, you know? It was arrested--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2136.94,2144.64"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2144.64,2144.94"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: --in Vilna Ghetto. How was Witt- [INAUDIBLE] arrested? In Vilna, was the, uh, communist underground group, Lithuanian. They penetrated some traitor in this group, which-- an older group was arrested. Including Kozlowski, was arrested in Vilna and was executed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2144.94,2162.51"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: And--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2162.51,2163.0"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Together with Wittenberg, together with Vitas. Vitas was the commander of the-- of the-- he was the secretary of the communist party in Vilna. It's a long story, but just-- I'm just telling--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2163.0,2170.39"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: But--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2170.39,2170.61"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: --my--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2170.61,2170.81"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: But you didn't know any of this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2170.81,2172.25"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: No, no. But I didn't know that. I just-- but I just understood that something is wrong. Then, I immediately left. But I had a second duty, I had. When we were asking after arms in Novo Svenci-- during the ghetto, we came into contact with some sergeant of the Soviet militia, the Soviet police. We(he) didn't escape the Soviets.  But he was in hiding with-- in his mother-- in the cellar, in his mother house.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2172.25,2199.1"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We were in contact with him. Again, when we looked after the arms, we-- when I told the command of the militia that this-- this guy is in hiding, he told him, go to him, and tell him that it's not time now to hiding. Let him leave the hiding, come to us, the forest, to fight with the partisans.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2199.1,2219.74"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I had to cross-- he lived-- I had to cross the whole small township of Nowe Święciany. The whole township is actually the railway station, the main railway station, which Vilna Dvinsk-- Warsaw, Vilna, Dvinsk, this passed. So the main railway to-- to the whole German northern front, Army Group North, called by that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2219.74,2239.42"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I have to go-- and it was along the street, parallel to the street. Along this street was the German [? [GERMAN] ?] old [? [GERMAN] ?] on this street. Kommandatura)And we knew what it was. So-- but I have to-- to go to-- I go to the-- on the other side. And to-- to go to the mother, to this boy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2239.42,2257.35"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I just approached the-- close to the [? [GERMAN] ?] the old [? [GERMAN], ?] a guard was going there. I saw cr-- coming in the direction of my-- on the same sidewalk. And German Todt-- Organisation Todt. I told you that I worked on-- in an-- in an-- in a tartak, which he was the-- and sh-- heading this way. And for months, I was working under him. He knew me. And he came, embraced with a young-- young lady, a local lady.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2257.35,2287.0"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And just-- I saw him about 50 meters before. What-- what to do? To just turn-- and the street was quite empty. To turn back, it would look some, uh, some, uh, skeptical. Why-- why-- why-- why I am just turning? To cross on the other side was exactly the German guard.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2287.0,2304.49"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I decided, whatever. We-- I have to go further. I just walked. And when I approached, I just looked on-- on the watch. And he passed. He was so busy with-- with his girlfriend, that he didn't look.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2304.49,2315.92"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I reached the house of the-- of the mother. I knocked at the door. The lady opened the door.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2315.92,2322.13"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What do you want, asked me?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2322.13,2323.15"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I told him, look I want to, uh, to speak with your son.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2323.15,2326.87"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My son. From Ju-- June '41 I didn't see him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2326.87,2331.67"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, look, tell him I know that he's here, in hiding. Tell him that he came on behalf of the commander of the-- I-- I forget the name. The name of the militia. I came.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2331.67,2341.1"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She didn't answer anything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2341.1,2343.36"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"After five-- she went-- she left w-- closed the door, left-- went to-- to speak with him. Then she opened, and I entered.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2343.36,2350.37"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I told him, look-- I met him. I told him, you have to leave.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2350.37,2353.87"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He showed me his feet were so swollen because he was sitting for two years in hiding.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2353.87,2359.45"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So he told me, look, I am now-- each night, I will leave, go a lit-- start to walk.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2359.45,2364.4"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I told him a place-- some contact v-- some villagers who has contacted us. He sh-- he will come there, and then, after a few weeks-- and then he will find the place, how to come-- And then, actually, a few months later, I met him in the forest with the partisans. But just such an episode of this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2364.4,2382.27"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"OK. Then we returned back. I didn't know about Kozlowski, or the story, Vilna. I didn't know. Just only-- after the war, bec-- after I-- I knew about-- but, uh, this time I know only my-- my part, that Kozlowski wasn't there, nothing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2382.27,2396.86"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then, uh, I went back, and then it was established a Lithuanian-- an otryad called Vilnius headed by [INAUDIBLE], and I was with him. And then from that time, from '40-- till summer '44, July, when the Soviet army came into our area, our main task was to mine the railway between Vilna and Dvinsk, Dyneburg, the main railway.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2396.86,2428.66"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I-- usually, we went from the forest, five people as a group, with two mines. Each mine 12 kilograms of TNT. Five people. We left the bases in Byelorussia for two, three weeks, sometimes. We approached the r-- the railway.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2428.66,2446.42"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One of the mines, we left some-- in-- behind some place, hidden. And, uh, [INAUDIBLE] was five people. We approached the railway, two of us with the mine between the two [? [NON-ENGLISH]-- ?] you know, beneath the railway. With-- beneath the line is-- the-- how it's in English called?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2446.42,2465.01"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: The cross ties?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2465.01,2466.04"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Yes, the--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2466.04,2466.51"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Ti-- between the rail? Between the rails?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2466.51,2468.08"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Between the rails. Yes, yes. Every 20, 30, whatever. So we dig, actually, there. We put the-- the mine there. And then we put an-- an small mine, which was-- when you only touched it, it was blowing up. So under the line, actually, when a train came-- comes, he pushed a little the-- the-- the-- the--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2468.08,2489.23"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: Detonator?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2489.23,2489.53"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Detonator?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2489.53,2489.82"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: --detonator about 1 or 2 millimeters. Then it was detonated. Then blew up. Usually, [INAUDIBLE] which selecting a place where the train is going on a high embankment, and if possible, although some not so straight. So if, actually, when he went quick, the train, the first blew up, so some of the wagons were down in the-- into the embankment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2489.82,2513.33"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, uh, so I took part in six things-- sixth m-- mines put-- putting. In beginning, there was more successful. Later, the trains started in such places, dangerous places, started to move very slowly. And then they pushed two cars with-- which sent before the-- before the--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2513.33,2536.21"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Engine?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2536.21,2536.88"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: --engine. So it blew it up there, so it was very little damage. Then we-- we started-- we put a mine there, and put in-- the-- s-- we developed other methods, what-- but, uh, this-- this was the main thing. Uh, then, uh, we were ambushing German units, but this-- main-- our mean act was to mine the railways.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2536.88,2562.42"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Uh, then one-- maybe more story which is quite interesting, which I participate. In '43, '4-- in the close of '44, the Germans established-- started to mobilize the Lithuanians into the German and-- and Lithuanian divi-- division to elect SS division to serve with the Germans. And it was-- in Latvia, it was Estonians and Lithuanian.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2562.42,2586.72"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Uh, the general-- gen-- the Lithuanian general was called mainly, uh, [INAUDIBLE] Parczewicz? or something like this. Uh, '44, beginning '44, this unit, they understood already the Germans going to lose the war. And our unit established contact with the commanders of this brigade. It was a brigade, [? [NON-ENGLISH]. ?] [? [NON-ENGLISH] ?] brigade.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2586.72,2611.3"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the whole unit should go over to our side. They knew already that the German going to lose the war. They wanted to fight for-- for their own future, some-- some skills.  (some excuse)At that time, many, even, Vlasov units, other units, went over to partisans. Local police stations went over to the-- so it's-- so this--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2611.3,2629.96"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we were ne-- negotiating with them. And one day, one of our group, which went to minor ,(to mine) uh, railway, the commander, it was-- two of them were killed, and one of the commander, Semenov, was wounded. And the German kept him in the hospital in Nowe-- in Święciany. And we knew that if he be interrogate-- interrogated, he knew about the contacts with the Lithuanian brigade, and it could finish the whole-- the whole story. He would be-- arrest us and everything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2629.96,2656.43"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So he goes and ordered to-- whatever to be, we have to release Semenov from the hospital, where the German kept him u-- under guard, and he was wounded. We tried the whole otryad to attack Święciany. It-- it was that bel-- it was already close to Ju-- my-- May. Nights are very, very short, in-- in the northern part, very short. It's quite--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2656.43,2681.6"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One day, next day, we were asked five volunteers. So I also volunteered. And the story was we should s-- quietly penetrate No-- Święciany. There were two guards. We knew there were guards in the entrance, in the hospital. It was small hospital, where he kept. We should, quietly, to, uh, to, uh, take him away and to enter the hospital and to take out Simonov alive or dead. This was the-- the order.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2681.6,2713.91"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, stories, again, uh, when-- we used-- the daytime, we approached close to the town. We were a small group. We could approach using some small forest to the township. In the nighttime, I-- I knew the city very well. I just, uh, passed near some guard, some house, where I knew my girlfriend, she's-- [INAUDIBLE], she was in the same school with me, was sleeping [LAUGHS] just in the open window. Yeah, I-- I almost touched her [LAUGHS] when I went just through.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2713.91,2740.97"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We reached the hospital. And then we saw the guard who was going there. We succeeded. We were very fast. We suc-- they are-- succeeded to overcome the guard quietly. And then the commander of this, our group, kar'u la Papka, he went-- we decided we shall-- we didn't know-- we knew that he was in the second floor, but didn't knew in which room he is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2740.97,2760.77"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So when we-- he run the first. I, second. He went to the left, and I went to the right to look in the rooms which were Semenov. So they came across-- we came in-- a n-- nurse. And I, with a-- with a, uh, automatic weapon, PPSh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2760.77,2774.11"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Gde ranenyy partizan? Where is the wounded partisan?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2774.11,2776.86"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She looked at me and fainted.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2776.86,2779.91"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I jumped into, uh, the room. Gde partizan? People started to fall from the beds, you know? They-- they-- then I went back. It turned out he was in the other side, with the commander.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2779.91,2791.43"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then we knew that there was a guard over near his, uh, room. And we knew all one thing, from-- from intelligence, that together, with-- in-- with him, in the room, is a Soviet captain from the army which tried to escape from prison. He was wounded and he was kept there. And the other was if he would be able to walk with us, to walk alone, yes, but if-- we have to take him, perhaps, not to-- [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2791.43,2815.07"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then I saw that, uh, two partisans kept, already, Semenov, and he was wounded. So I jumped down to the outside. We didn't know that there's a-- third guard was in the office down. We didn't know about. We know about two guards in the entrance, and then across this room.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2815.07,2833.36"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I jumped-- fell down, I saw, suddenly, a Lithuanian policemen is coming. He heard a noise. He didn't know what. So I, with the PPSh, just hit them in the head. And he fell away, and he went out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2833.36,2848.64"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so two of us were keeping Semenov. One, I-- and Papka [INAUDIBLE] first. And then we saw in the field, an horse, which was, nighttime, left for pasture. So we took the horse, Simonov, with him. And early in the morning.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2848.64,2863.82"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then when we passed in town, we heard some alarm. And then-- it was a nearby police station, which [INAUDIBLE] about 90 policemen there, an alarm. So we took [INAUDIBLE] immediately will be in pursuit behind us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2863.82,2875.04"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But the stories-- they told that a ma-- large partisan group is attack-- attacking the city. So they took defense position and didn't go. An early in the morning, we reached the forest where our group was, with Semenov alive, again, in hand.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2875.04,2891.99"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We were put for-- for orders. (decorations) I had to receive them krasnaya zvezda but, uh, so this is just a one of operation, which is very unique, all the partisan activities.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2891.99,2902.15"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Uh, maybe my interesting other stories, uh, in '44, when the army, the Soviet army approached, we got an order to move towards the Soviet army, in July '44. When it-- it was a big Soviet attack. We started near Vitebsk and finished, actually, almost at the border of eastern Prussia, the whole central German front was destroyed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2902.15,2924.03"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then, uh, one of our groups, a small group, was more into the west. The co-- commander sent me another one to tell the group to join us, in order we should move to meet the Soviet army. A long story. We met the group. We told them to go. But we-- two of us were left-- we were left alone, not with the other group. And we tried to move through-- on the way back to our bases. We had to cross two roads. And the road was full of German rotating retreating units, full, just. Uh, all the local policemen, local collaborators, fully.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2924.03,2958.75"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we stayed. We couldn't go to the road. So we went back to a peasant, which was our contacts. And in a forest, close-- we told them, look, we are going to sleep a little in the forest. And, uh, bring us food, uh, after we shall rest. 8 o'clock in the morning, he c-- he c-- he came to the forest, we were staying, two of us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2958.75,2978.02"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He told me, look, five men of Vlasov army, of the-- of the-- of the Russians-- in German uniforms, they escaped the unit.  They were in retreat. They're looking after the partisans.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2978.02,2989.81"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He told them, OK, bring them to us. But we knew, because in such station, the-- they looked at the-- they came in German uniforms, German arms. They served, uh, Vlasov. Every man told the story that he was, uh, impri-- was encircled. He couldn't, uh, why he went to Vlasov.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=2989.81,3006.18"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We told them, don't be afraid.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3006.18,3008.18"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What will happen to us? What will happen?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3008.18,3010.51"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Look, uh, the [INAUDIBLE] can be used-- be sent in-- in, uh-- there was Strafbataillon, battalions which were, uh, people which were, uh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3010.51,3020.01"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Penal. Penal battalion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3020.01,3020.74"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: Penal battalion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3020.74,3021.46"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Penal battalion. This was in such case. You will be sent there. During the daytime, seven more came, of such. I-- we were 12 of them. Nighttime, we went together with them to cross the, uh, roads. Again, impossible. Retreat. We knew it was [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3021.46,3039.22"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, uh, we took-- the-- with German uniforms, we took the shinels of the-- all the shinels-- you know shinel? It's the overcoats. Both of us put on them. And we just went on the road together, with the-- there wasn't already families, some treating of policemen. It wasn't-- we went a mere 100 meters, then we-- on the other side.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3039.22,3058.6"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"To cut the story short, on the way, we were attacked. But finally, we reached a forest. And we knew that-- and all the time, I heard when we-- when we went more to the east, two of us, and twelve Vlasov men. All the time, the shootings came on both sides of the forest, on s-- north of the forest and south of the forest, and wa-- always from-- going more to the west. The Soviet army was advancing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3058.6,3084.49"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In the middle of the-- of this big forest, there was a small village, few houses. So we went in this direction. Then we just approached the village. I looked in the-- in the binoculars. I saw the Soviet unit, there, in the village. I thought all of [INAUDIBLE] were afraid to-- they will-- the Germany uniforms will open on us fire.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3084.49,3103.22"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I told them, stay here, and I went to the-- the forest, to the village, and met the commander. And, uh, it was a reconnaissance unit, which-- Soviet, a \"mayor\"-- major commander there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3103.22,3116.74"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I told him, look, I have with me twelve Vlasov men.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3116.74,3119.32"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"OK.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3119.32,3120.37"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And they take them into one of the houses of the village. I went back, took them. Then, uh, he told me, look, look, that they will not keep their arms with them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3120.37,3133.28"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So when we entered the house, I told them, OK, I-- I took my PPSh, my, uh, automatic weapon, and put in the [INAUDIBLE]. OK, now we are all with our soldiers, with our army. We-- we shouldn't need. Let's put all the arms together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3133.28,3147.1"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then we will-- and the-- the peasant gave us some vodka to drink, some wine, which was-- and then when they were without arms, three soldiers entered inside, with the PPShs Took the 12 of them outside house. I just looked to the window. They put them near the window and shot all of them. Shoot all of the people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3147.1,3167.96"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He didn't wanted to bother to take them to prisoner camp. [INAUDIBLE] much simpler to-- human life didn't play any role that time. So su-- su-- such stories I'm telling, which-- which are--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3167.96,3179.21"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: A Jewish boy--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3179.21,3180.39"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: What?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3180.39,3180.77"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: --from a ghetto--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3180.77,3181.72"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3181.72,3182.53"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: --in the partisans. What--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3182.53,3185.85"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Oh. In the partisans, there was anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3185.85,3190.71"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3190.71,3191.38"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: No, I'm just--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3191.38,3191.77"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: You've-- you've--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3191.77,3192.09"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: I want to tell you. I just-- some, uh, giving some example. With me, war was some Ukrainians who escaped Nazi-- Nazi service was. And, uh, they joined us. And once, I went with such in a Ukrainian called was Kopelka , a huge one. I was, uh, usually when we went some reconnaissance in the-- in the forest was some Jewish families which were hiding in the forest.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3192.09,3216.01"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I had time, I, and other Jewish partisans, we usually br-- used to bring them some food, some-- something like this, in order to-- to help them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3216.01,3223.81"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I told Kopelka, OK, when you were on the-- to the recconais-- back to the reconnaissance, to the-- to our base, I told him, look, let's enter. I want just to meet some Jewish family.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3223.81,3231.85"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"OK. We have time. We entered.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3231.85,3233.85"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We entered. They lived in the underground, such a-- they built such zemlyanka called, which was some structural underground which, uh, Kopelka enter inside. And there was an-- an man, which, uh, wife and a few children.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3233.85,3248.3"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He told them, zdorov zhidy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3248.3,3251.32"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hello. Zhidy. Zhidy was in-- in Russian, it was an insult, because the Russians, they u-- the Jews are called Yevrey. So they ask them, why do you ask zhidy and not Yevrey?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3251.32,3262.79"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So Kopelka told and showed me. My nickname in partisan was Tolka. Anatoly. Anatoly, Toly, Tolka. It's a long story wide.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3262.79,3269.39"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: Mm-hmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3269.39,3269.72"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: But this was my nickname there. Tolya, he is a-- an Yevrey, but you are zhidy. So I was just fighting together with him. It's Yevrey. Those were hiding there, for them, it's zhidy, just an-- a psychology of-- of-- of-- of a Ukrainian peasant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3269.72,3284.54"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: I asked you what you thought yourself were, as a Jewish boy in the partisans--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3284.54,3289.78"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Look--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3289.78,3290.21"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: --whose parents were killed and [INAUDIBLE]--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3290.21,3293.17"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: First of all, uh, doubtlessly, one of the-- of the motivation for [INAUDIBLE] was, uh, to take revenge. One of them-- moti-- motivation. And this was, when we-- ghetto, and we stole the arms, and we spoke about [INAUDIBLE], and-- and we knew that the Germans, doing the Jewish people, to [INAUDIBLE] physical annihilation, so the natural way was, uh, to-- was to fight back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3293.17,3319.4"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Secondly, what I didn't tell, when you heard the dispute about going back to the ghetto, the uprising ghetto, or to partisans. Uprising in the ghetto was an other way to die. It wasn't a-- coul-- couldn't gain a victory. The forest partisan warfare gave some chance of survival. So in partisan, they have two things. Also, a prolonged fight, and possibly of revenge, of-- to-- to fight, and then also some success, um, some chance of-- of-- of surviving.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3319.4,3350.6"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And all of us wanted to live. We didn't want to die an heroic, uh, death.  We wanted to survive. [INAUDIBLE]. I-- all the time, again, all of them, I saw that the war will end. I will- I will go to Eretz Israel, to the-- to Israel. So that this was my-- but, uh, but that time, this was, uh--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3350.6,3369.05"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/231","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Look. We were so absorbed, dai-- daily, in the fighting, daily in-- in-- in-- in everything. I didn't tell the story how many the forest were c-- sometimes, you found outside the whole forest surrounded. The German units were-- combed the forest. What to do? The tactic that we used, if we got some information, intelligence, before the Germans started-- just-- it was-- when the Germans had-- in order to comb the forest, they have to concentrate forces.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3369.05,3396.17"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So when local intelligence, uh, tells us a German, then the-- our policy was not to enter open fight with the Germans, not to-- but they are with, uh, large strength. Combing forest? Not to enter, just to go to other forest. The Germans hadn't enough forces to keep-- in all the forests simultaneously, to-- to-- to comb them. So the partisan tactic was to move from this place. After the Germans one, two weeks comb this area, they the left. Then we went back to the bases.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3396.17,3424.82"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If we didn't have the-- the intelligence before-- so we tried, let's say, in one spot, to concentrate our for-- to break through the German encircling. A third me-- method we used was if we couldn't break through, just we-- depart-- the whole unit was divided in small troops of four, five partisans. And each group tried to-- some way, to go out to the surrounding forest, nighttime and something. And then the order was-- we shall-- all the units will meet, let's say, in the second forest, let's say, [INAUDIBLE]-- in Kazyany forest was an-- in [INAUDIBLE]. Let's say we shall meet in the Naroch Village, Naroch, uh, Forest.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3424.82,3463.64"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then part reached. Part were killed. Part didn't reach because, uh, were ambushed on the way or killed in the way. So this was the partisan.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3463.64,3471.98"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So you were all the time absorbed in the operations, but-- for mining, five people to [INAUDIBLE] we left the base for two, three weeks, four weeks. Or they-- you-- you-- you were in such, in surrounded. Or even simple partisans, simple-- to get food.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3471.98,3488.58"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When the partisans u-- movement became stronger, large numbers, the problem that-- the food we took in the local population, local villages. The Germans also took from the local people. And the-- usually the area were the poor areas. They were not rich peasants. So-- so so we had, every time, to go to much farther, distant villages to-- to get food.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3488.58,3510.45"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So in each operation, became actually a military operation to get food, because, uh, the German organized local defenses, so the local people, which they didn't want to-- to-- the last call, the last, uh, food will be taken. Some of the Lithuanian villagers were ideologically opposed to us. And if they-- someone fed village, we didn't want to rob-- to take from--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3510.45,3530.61"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3530.61,3530.81"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: --the village. So it was a complicated-- each-- even-- they've called it economic cooperation. Was a military operation which needed the forces, which needed fighting, which-- which-- which was not simple. So all the time, in partisan a movement, you didn't have time to-- to-- to-- to-- just to-- to-- to think, uh, a lot more.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3530.81,3546.5"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But you were involved in the fighting, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3546.5,3548.86"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: Mm-hmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3548.86,3549.22"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Operating. You-- you tried to do your best. And we-- all the time, we believe in victory. After all, uh, when I started the partisan warfare, it was already after Stalingrad, after the German defeat at Stalingrad. And it was only a question of time. We knew that-- that one month, uh, two months more, we shall became w-- the Soviet Union.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3549.22,3569.52"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Now, did you ever have any contact with the army of Krajowa, the Polish home army?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3569.52,3573.12"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Yes, [INAUDIBLE]. In the earlier, in 1943, the-- in 19-- even the end '42, beginning '44, the Polish Armia Krajowa started with an operation called Burza. Burza, which means, uh, tempest, in local. Their purpose was-- it wasn't-- and-- and the sp-- the Armia Krajowa was under the authority of the Polish gov-- government in London. Sikorski, the so-called Sikorski Government.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3573.12,3598.37"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They-- they-- it wasn't disputed for them, about western Byelorussia, western Ukraine. The Poles see it as part of the future Poland, so going back to the borders of '39 of Poland. The Soviets saw it as part of the Soviet Ukraine and Byelorussia. So Soviet Union.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3598.37,3616.23"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the Polish government decided in-- when the Soviet army approach, over the borders of Poland, that they should push out the Soviet partisans from this area, western Byelorussia and western Ukraine in order to-- when Soviet [INAUDIBLE], to put before there the fact that this area is under control of Polish partisans, Pol-- of Polish authorities, collected with-- with, uh, [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3616.23,3639.24"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And actually, we were-- that-- uh, I would say in March, April, May '44, we were in the forest, fighting against such Polish partisan, uh, units.  And, uh, their relation to Jews were very hostile, because they saw in the Jews, a pro-Soviet element.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3639.24,3655.45"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Uh-huh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3655.45,3656.67"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: What was it based? Wh-- what was the root of this approach? Of course, anti-Semitism, this is a long story. But not only this, in 1939, in September, when the Soviet army entered let's say Vilna or Bialystok or-- or Rovno or Lviv, the Jews accepted the Soviet army with-- with-- with-- with joy. The Polish, the Poles saw this-- enter the Soviet army, as a stab of a kn-- knife in the back. But they're fighting the Germans. The Soviet enters.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3656.67,3686.48"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We-- what they didn't understand us, that our problem was not whether the area will be-- will remain Polish or-- or German. The area that-- problem was whether the area will be occupied by the Germans or by the Soviets. So we accepted the Soviets with flowers, because we preferred them than German occupation in '39.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3686.48,3707.08"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Uh-huh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3707.08,3707.57"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: But for Poles, this remained-- they-- they-- they-- th-- this-- in addition to deep-rooted, popular anti-Semitism. So they saw the J-- the Jews as an-- as a--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3707.57,3718.02"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3718.02,3718.18"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: --pro-Soviet element in the forest, also. And many Jews were killed by them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3718.18,3723.45"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: You said you didn't think because of daily operation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3723.45,3726.34"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3726.34,3727.08"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: When did the thinking begin?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3727.08,3729.91"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: I think maybe we--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3729.91,3730.24"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: The thinking began--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3730.24,3731.2"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: We have less-- less than a minute. So let's hold the answer to that when they change the tape. We have less than one minute for this tape.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3731.2,3736.71"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: Well, I won't be able to hear it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3736.71,3738.84"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Ah. You have to go?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3738.84,3740.21"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DORI LAUB: OK.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3740.21,3740.51"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422/transcript/70147/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: That's too--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66422#t=3740.51,3770.845"}]}]},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 3 of 3 - open-uri20191231-18341-lhakza.mov"]},"duration":3252.91,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/066/423/small/open-uri20191231-18341-lhakza_1577799628.jpg?1577781628","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/content/3/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-fortunoff.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/066/423/original/open-uri20191231-18341-lhakza.mov?1577781627","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3252.91,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Where is-- it comes with the-- when we met the Soviet, yes?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=0.92,8.9"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Well, he asked you, OK, now we-- we were asking you-- you said, while you were with the partisans, you had no time to think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=8.9,15.88"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=15.88,16.56"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: But afterwards, you began to think, and I'd like to add to that question. Maybe you could reflect on this too. When did you finally learn what had happened to the Jews in the camps, and why did you think when you heard that when you had time to think about it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=16.56,30.83"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Uh, when we joined the Soviet-- when the Soviet Army came to our area, and it was, June, July '44, the partisan unit was disbanded. The Lithuanians, which were part of this, they became actually the local administration. They became the local mayor of the city and mayor of the sec-- the secretary of the communist party. They-- they became the local.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=30.83,58.59"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The formal*  soldiers of the Soviet Army, which were a part-- which escaped the-- prisoner escape out of this-- they were sent back immediately to the military units to the front line. I, myself, and other of this kind, we were organized a special group fighting against the Lithuanians in the forest.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=58.59,82.6"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What happened? When the Germans retreated, most of the Lithuanians were collaborating with the Germans, retreated to them. But part of them remained, didn't-- didn't have time to retreat and couldn't retreat. So when the Soviet came, they went to the forest. We just-- we changed the places.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=82.6,99.78"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We became the cities fighting them, and they-- [INAUDIBLE] Lithuanian, the Soviets announced immediately mobilization of the Soviet Army. Local peop-- some of the local people, instead of going to the Soviet Army, escaped to the forests, joined the partisans.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=99.78,118.47"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, actually, till May '45, 8th of May, we were fighting in the forests, in the same forests or similar forests that-- that-- before we were sitting. But, again, maybe I'll tell the first there-- when only we-- we-- our unit entered Swieciany, my native town, with the full force of Soviet Union. Especially I-- I wouldn't see that we liberated Swieciany, but we participated in the liberation of Swieciany.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=118.47,150.54"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And my unit were about six or seven boys from Swieciany who were here. Of course, when we entered the city, and we saw the-- there was a Jewish song, di zelbe gasn un tramveyen, the same streets, the same houses, but without our people. So it was a very-- from one side, we were very happy that, finally, we-- Soviet Army came back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=150.54,176.18"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Second, we didn't find our-- our people. It was Swieciany without-- without all the people, Swieciany. And you went the first day to polygon to see that the place where the Jews were shot, 12 kilometers near Nowe Swieciany.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=176.18,191.82"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When there, some of us did Kaddish and so so-- so this-- this part. But, again, we didn't have time a lot of, uh, thinking because, immediately, we have to continue to fight toward the [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=191.82,206.79"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And such we continued-- I went-- Vilna was also liberated. The partisans from the forest, they had my-- my sister from Vilna Ghetto joined the underground with the Vilna Ghetto with the Kovno group, and she escaped with the Kovno partisans in the Rudnicki Forest, Rudniki, you know? *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=206.79,224.08"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=224.08,224.48"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Forest, Rudnicki, And she was there. They returned to Vilna, and, uh, I met her in Vilna. I was invited to Vilna to the president of the republic. They have some, uh--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=224.48,237.7"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Medals?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=237.7,238.11"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Medals and orders of-- of-- of heroism, which I carried out in the partisan warfare. I have them, the, medals till now, I am keeping as a memoir. And-- but I expected the day the war will end, I will try in each way to reach-- to go to-- to the Eretz Yisrael, the Polish way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=238.11,260.55"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that time, it was an agreement from the-- between the Polish government, so Polish communist government and Soviet Union, about Polish citizens were in Soviet Union could go back to Poland and let the Russians be Russians, would leave to Poland, could go back. I couldn't do it. I was at that time, in uniform. I was fighting. *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=260.55,281.1"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I and my friend, [? Borries ?]*Boris Yochai, I mentioned him, which he is now in Los Angeles today, he organized some forged documents, and, uh, one day, when there-- when the transports had to leave-- leave, uh, Vilna to in direction of Poland transport will be the-- the Poles went back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=281.1,302.74"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Uh, I escaped, came, reached Vilna, a long story, always get worse-- kept I-- I want-- to enter the details at will-- and, uh, reached Poland, reached Lodz. Lodz was a city where the Jews started to organize themselves. The beginning was in Lublin, but when I reached, it was-- Lodz was the center.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=302.74,326.88"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One day, I decided to go back to Warsaw. Maybe by some chance, the parents are alive, maybe by some chance. I didn't believe, but still. Then I went back to Warsaw. The whole area where I lived was destroyed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=326.88,340.17"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was all the-- in Prague ,*Praga Prague was some-- asked in some quarter was some Jews there, some Jewish organization. I didn't find them, went back to Lodz. And in Lodz, immediately, we were organized in the Zionist group. And we started to be prepared, forged documents, as Greeks were going back to-- as Greeks who were deported from Greece and by the so-called Bericha, you know, the--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=340.17,368.49"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Escape, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=368.49,369.0"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Escaped, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=369.0,369.91"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Jewish escaped unit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=369.91,371.13"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: I went to-- from Poland to Bratislava, Slovakia from Bratislava to Budapest to Pest, from Pest, we crossed the border to Graz, which was also the British area, and then I smuggled alongside. The British didn't prevent us to reach Italy. We know then Italy should be the-- also the soldiers in the Jewish brigades.  *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=371.13,395.04"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was British Army in Taravisio, a place called Taravisio. A long way across the border, I was myself, as Italian partisans called me. They thought that I am a German. [INAUDIBLE] I started to speak with them in German, almost shoot me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=395.04,414.43"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There I told them I am a Jude. It was Jude, zhid, nothing. Then I-- I made then on the sand the sign--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=414.43,421.91"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Mogen David?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=421.91,422.47"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Mogen David. Ebreo.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=422.47,423.85"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Ebreo.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=423.85,424.39"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Again, I didn't-- I didn't--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=424.39,426.14"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ebreo, Yevrey in Russian.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=426.14,428.19"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yes, yes. Oh, OK. So I went Tarvisio. Tarvisio already I didn't meet the brigade, the long story, then to Udine, then I met the first Israeli soldiers. And then I was sent to a seminary in Italy in December 25.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=428.19,445.07"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We left Italy on a small boat called Hannah Szenes, illegal boat, and on Christmas night, '45 when the British soldiers were drunk, we landed near Neria. *Nahariya The part-- the partisan, the Soviet, the Palmach* waited us on the beach.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=445.07,461.76"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Again, they waited, and I'm not exactly pleased, and I jumped in the-- from the-- from the boat. Of course, nobody started to-- to disembark us. I reached the-- the second one, the beach. And, uh, the story is finally, this night, I was-- came to a-- to a kibbutz, Ramat Yohanan, next day to Kibbutz Yagur.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=461.76,485.57"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I stayed for two months in Yagur. I wanted to be in a kibbutz, in a kibbutz. This was my old-- as a child, the Zionist Movement, all the-- my idea was I will come to Eretz Yisreal, became a kibbutz member, and this was-- the pure Zionist, uh, ideological aim. But that time, it was back in '46, in the land, it was the struggle for against the British. The British closed the-- the gates for-- for Jewish immigration.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=485.57,514.49"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I was two months in Yagur. I said, no, I am not going to sit to milk the cause*milk the cows in the morning when-- when other are fighting. So I joined the underground, the Palmach, and being-- having experience in blowing up.  So I became Ktsin Khabalah, instructor of how to mine, how to blow up in the-- in the Palmach. You know, the Palmach where the-- the commander   units of--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=514.49,542.75"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Of the Haganah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=542.75,543.2"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Haganah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=543.2,543.59"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=543.59,544.33"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: But then, but because I was already a fighter with long experience, in the partisans, in the Palmach, were three-- three elite units, one was in reconnaissance units, the Palmach. The second was a group which was dealing with the-- with the illegal immigration, with the Ha'apala,  back to Europe to-- to-- to-- bring the ships for the immigrants.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=544.33,564.44"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And a third group was a small group of 10 to 15 people, nucleus for the future Jewish air force. It was under the cover of the Palestinian Sport Aviation Club. This was the-- the cover name. But it was actually Palmach.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=564.44,578.53"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And they told me, you can choose any unit you want. So to go back to Europe, I didn't want to hear about it. To join-- join the reconnaissance unit in the [INAUDIBLE] time. So I joined the pilot group. And I have a British license.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=578.53,594.04"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: And you learned how to fly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=594.04,595.4"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Flying, yes. And I was flying, and I did-- the same time, I was also instructing in Palmach, the mining.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=595.4,601.37"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=601.37,602.25"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: It ktsin khabalah, this mine. And I was flying till beginning of '48 after the announcement of the partition of the land. And then the first group of the pilots have to go to Czechoslovakia to fly, Messerschmidts, the Czechoslovakia gave us the Messerschmidts. So we went through very thorough medical-- uh, medical check, and it turned out that I am a little color blind, certain-- red-- red colors I couldn't-- [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=602.25,635.19"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: So they wouldn't let you fly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=635.19,635.84"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: They told me I cannot go to the--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=635.84,636.48"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=636.48,637.3"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: But they told me, look, now we are establishing a new air force staff. I told them, no, if not to be a-- a fighter pilot, thank you. I went back to the Palmach, and that time was the battle for Jerusalem. I went that, and Jerusalem with the Palmach was fighting on the way to Jerusalem as a commander of the-- of the mining, uh, groups was in Jerusalem fighting in the old city, to break the old city in two parts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=637.3,661.91"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I took part in the Sheikh Jarrah and the Ramat Rachel, all the fighting. * And on the way to Jerusalem, I was in the last-- the echelon which tried to, in the eve of Passover, to go to Jerusalem. I was in the end of this big, uh, transport of about 100 cars. I lost one of four of my soldiers that were killed, and, uh, I was traveling with a small car with blowing up material, which eats bullets, which blew it up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=661.91,691.97"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, finally, it was also lost on the way. But I fought in Jerusalem all the battles of Jerusalem. Then I went to the Negev to the-- but just to go a little back to the 29th November '47 when the United Nations decided about-- about the partition [INAUDIBLE] country.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=691.97,716.77"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Partition, yeah. *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=716.77,717.95"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: And this night, I was just-- we were the group of the-- the Palmach in the Negev. We finished, and in the course of blowing up, and we were on the way, and we didn't knew about the decision about partition, we just went back to on the way to Tel Aviv from where-- all the people to go to their Palmach units.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=717.95,739.03"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When we reach Rishon LeZion, so people are dancing in the streets, and you didn't ask what happened. You know, [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=739.03,746.78"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: You [INAUDIBLE]?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=746.78,747.15"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: It was in the Juden nation.*UN? And the same day, my girlfriend was sitting with me. I had a girlfriend. She was the first girl killed in the-- a bit later, she was killed by the Arabs, called Miriam Shachor. And, uh, I told her, look, I don't know whether the people were dancing in the streets, you know, that tomorrow, we have to go to-- to fight. So I told her.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=747.15,768.04"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we reached the Kibbutz Na'an. Then I didn't find only my group because Na'an was close to Ramla. Ramla was an Arab city. So we went back-- we went back to Haifa and continued, and the story with which I had to leave the-- the flight and then-- uh, so the question when did-- was I aware-- I was asked before about--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=768.04,792.19"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=792.19,792.64"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: --the camps. When I reached, actually, the whole-- the whole story, when I came in May '45 in Poland and Lodz, at that time, I became known about the full story about Auschwitz, Sobibor, and Treblinka and what happened. When we were between-- when we joined the Soviet Army in '44 somewhere, till May '45, and it was [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=792.64,817.42"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In Vilna, we get information, all what happened is the Polish people exterminated, they get the camps. But the-- the-- the full story, as it was, I received only later, but we knew that the Polish Jews exterminated and there were death camps, but not-- not the-- the details only when it was in Poland after May '4--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=817.42,837.93"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: You remember what you felt or thought when you learned that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=837.93,844.1"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: You know, uh--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=844.1,846.01"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: And the whole war went by, and you didn't know anything about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=846.01,849.56"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: We-- we knew, yes--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=849.56,850.16"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Really bad things were happening.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=850.16,851.48"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: And-- and I had no illusions about my parents. I didn't have illusions, but still I haven't-- at least, I went to Warsaw, maybe by some-- by some chance. Uh, but, again, the life that I am so intensive, all the time either fighting, either escaping, either on the way to Eretz Yisrael-- you were all the time engaged in this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=851.48,869.72"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Even I came to Israel, and the Palmach, and the underground, the fighting, and the war of independence, all this-- you-- but, uh, still, it all the time, accompanied me, but I think that in some way, I tried not to think too much about it. I just-- I didn't jump, you know, but I-- I wasn't-- I left-- after the war for independence, I stayed in the army.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=869.72,896.38"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was an army officer. I was a company commander, lieutenant commander, brigade commander, and so I was-- and then when I went to study, I accomplished my studies in the army, and then the army sent me to the university.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=896.38,908.9"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Tell us a little bit about that because that was going to be my next question. I know you had a long and distinguished career in the military. That's another story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=908.9,915.62"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=915.62,916.07"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: You were one of a small handful of major Holocaust historians who are also Holocaust survivors. *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=916.07,922.43"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=922.43,922.79"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Not many. Israel Gutman.*","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=922.79,924.13"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Yes, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=924.13,924.36"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Saul Friedlander, a few other people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=924.36,926.17"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Yes, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=926.17,926.96"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: What made you decide to study history and become a Holocaust historian?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=926.96,931.85"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: You just wanted to start. When I went to study in the university, I chose to study political science, my bachelor degree and general history, not Jewish history, general history. And when I finished this, and I made it my master's degree, I still continued in general history taking Eastern history because I know-- I knew the languages of Polish, Russian fluently, so it-- it makes it easier to-- to-- to stay this path.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=931.85,963.14"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But then when I came to do my PhD degree, I just thought, I am going to waste a few years on writing some research about, uh, Peter the Great, or Ekaterina, or Ivan the Terrible. This is what I am going to do?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=963.14,982.22"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I have some obligation to-- to the war from where I came. I have some obligation for the people where I came. My survival was also by chance, not only because I was more clever or-- or-- or more guilty than-- more-- more, uh, better than others.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=982.22,999.24"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I felt some obligation to-- to go in direction of the Holocaust. You know, when I was in the army, my last appointment in the Israeli Army, between '68 up to '72, I was a general brigadier, my rank. And I was chief education officer of the Israeli Army. *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=999.24,1017.23"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"All the years, I was an army officer, all the battle [INAUDIBLE] I took as an army officer. But my last appointment was chief education officer. And then when I was in the army in-- in '72, I was approached by Yigal Allon. *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1017.23,1032.92"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He was, at that time, the-- the minister of culture and education. You know, Yigal Allon. He was a commander of the Palmach-- asked-- he asked me maybe that you want me to appoint the chairman of Yad Vashem.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1032.92,1046.12"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I went to the chief of staff, which was the David Elazar, the so-called Dado, which [INAUDIBLE] myself in the army all the years together in the Palmach Harel in Jerusalem we fought together.  So I went to that*Dado. I told him, look, I want to leave the army. I want to-- Allon proposed me to became chair of Yad Vashem.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1046.12,1064.66"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"No, I would-- as long as I am chief of staff, I want you to be chief education officer. I told him, look, Dado, my obligation to the State of Israel, to the Israeli Army, I am 25 years a soldier. I am 30 years old a soldier.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1064.66,1083.02"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I did as long as I felt that this is my duty. I did it. I feel now that I came from a world that was destroyed. I came from a people who were destroyed. I came from a township from which-- which I-- I-- I still I dream sometimes about it. I feel an obligation to do something for this world from where I came, where my roots were, and please let me go.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1083.02,1113.45"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So he told me, look, he told me. He told me Tolka, my nickname, Tolka, look, I am not going to-- if-- if, really, this is what you want, I'm not going to stop. But what I would prefer that you stay, but [INAUDIBLE] at-- OK, then let's find somebody who is going to replace you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1113.45,1129.22"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, finally, I and was nothing, the 1st of April '72, I left the army and went Yad Vashem. I was 21 years the chairman of Yad Vashem.* In '72,*73 there was the Yom Kippur War.* I went back to the army for half a year, and then-- and then-- so, uh, when I came to PhD, I decided to-- to go to the Holocaust, up to the PhD.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1129.22,1154.78"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then which-- and then decided, look, if the Holocaust-- sometimes a PhD about Swieciany is nothing, but Vilna Ghetto, which is so-- such an interesting ghetto. You have there, and first of all, a long story of-- a Jewish very living community, a live committee*(community), a very active community, and Vilna Ghetto wasn't-*was- Judenrat are very strong personality, like Jacob Gens with an ideology. Let's work to survive. This was the ideology.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1154.78,1183.95"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Vilna Ghetto was the first-- one of the first undergrounds, and a big underground, with the problems which are uprise in ghetto or to the forest in dispute, all this. So I am going to do a walk on the Vilna Ghetto. Then my PhD was on the Vilna Ghetto [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1183.95,1199.12"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: The Ghetto in Flames was your PhD dissertation?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1199.12,1201.38"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: My PhD dissertation, yes. So also-- I felt because I have some feelings. I am close to Vilna, not Vilna, but still I was in Vilna. I related to Vilna, and so on. I was-- so this is the reason why I-- I chose this. Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1201.38,1216.41"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: And Abba Kovner was still alive, so you could talk to him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1216.41,1218.34"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Definitely. Definitely, yes. And then, of course, when I met-- later, I made some research, and then I came to the problem with the operation on the death camps which I-- which my walk,*(work) the first work on the-- on these death camps. I was the first, until now, till now, after almost 20 years, it's no other walk and, actually, research on this three camps.  *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1218.34,1240.52"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The same on Vilnia, also, you know, some memoirs, books are written, but no new [INAUDIBLE] because I think that the two books gave some basic that-- it's nothing to-- to add to it. Of course, we get some details in there, but, basically, this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1240.52,1253.98"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then I decided to work with Soviet Union, and now the last decade, even more, from '88 when I was first time invited to Soviet Union, I started to work on the Holocaust and Soviet Jewry, which, again, I feel myself-- I am part of it.*","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1253.98,1270.2"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Mhm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1270.2,1271.06"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: I witnessed it. I am part of it. And just I complete now my research on Holocaust servitude. (Soviet Union) over two-- over 1,000 pages.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1271.06,1279.25"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Now when writing Ghetto in Flames --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1279.25,1281.45"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Yeah?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1281.45,1282.88"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Did Yad Vashem have enough archive material for you to work with? How much did you have to work with survivors with whom you had to speak and how much with, um, documents?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1282.88,1292.63"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Look, first of all, uh, with survivors, Yad Vas-- started in the very early period to collect testimonies of survivors. So Yad Vashem had a pretty nice collection of it. *Then I myself let's I interviewed a few times Abba Kovner, with-- with Ruska Korczak,  *which, you know, she wrote all the book, which-- with Vita Kempner. * It's Abba Kovner's wife.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1292.63,1314.68"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I interviewed other Vilna Jews. When we speak about interviewing again, I interviewed all those people when I walked *(worked) on the Operation Reinhard death camps, Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka I worked on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1314.68,1327.43"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Again, when you are going-- when I am looking to interview somebody today, over 50 years after the event happened, I feel that I should know more about the Vilna Ghetto, about the camps, than the people who survived these camps because then I could direct them to questions and to remind them events that maybe they all forgot. Maybe they-- they-- from the years, they-- things that they heard about it, and they witnessed it. It came mixed by them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1327.43,1360.6"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Uh-huh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1360.6,1361.57"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: You know, I-- I succeeded to compare with the testimonies given by the same people in '45 immediately after the liberation and 30, 40 years later. The same people--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1361.57,1370.26"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: And what did you find-- tell me what you found out--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1370.26,1371.61"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: And differences, not because of their lying, but because-- I think things that they-- in the meantime, they heard, they-- they participated, they-- they met with friends, thought. It became part as they passed. They themselves saw we were part--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1371.61,1385.07"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Mhm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1385.07,1385.85"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: --of it. So-- so to date, to take a witness and testimony of survivors, the people take the testimony should know a lot about the locality, what were the men was and then to remind them and then to direct them not to-- to-- to-- so and just to-- to ask in more detailed questions [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1385.85,1406.74"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Did they-- the uprising in Sobibor, tell me, where were you? What-- in which direction? Did-- did you try to-- to go to the gate or to the-- to the barbed wire with the mines?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1406.74,1415.86"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1415.86,1416.54"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Just tell me where you-- it was 4:00 afternoon, not 12 o'clock, [INAUDIBLE]. It was-- it was actually 4 o'clock because it was in the end of the war, just-- just so-- so-- I-- I had to lead him to-- to-- to-- to-- to the situation, at that time, more than he actually remembered.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1416.54,1433.95"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: But it's never a matter of lying. It's a matter of just--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1433.95,1435.74"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: No, no, no, no. I'm telling. No, no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1435.74,1436.91"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Memory is just not--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1436.91,1438.02"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Just memories, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1438.02,1438.83"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: I guess, remembering the detail.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1438.83,1440.32"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: If I were today start the story of Swieciany, of my-- of my book which was the partisans, as you called, if I wouldn't-- didn't have a meeting when I came to-- to-- to Israel, Kibbutz Yagura, where I wrote my memoirs, many of the sequence of events I wouldn't remember what was before, what was later, the names of localities, more exact dates.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1440.32,1465.86"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I wouldn't remember. Today, even if I told the story, if-- if I don't look the-- the book, I-- I don't remember exactly the-- the-- before. I didn't just enter here my testimony about details of the partisan warfare, what happened. I didn't then, but-- but in order to give exactly the names of local places, I should-- I should look at the book.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1465.86,1489.44"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Now from whom did you learn-- no Gens, of course, was shot by the Germans.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1489.44,1492.23"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1492.23,1492.55"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: And from whom did you learn about Gens? because you wrote about against extensively.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1492.55,1497.57"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: First of all, a lot of-- of the testimonies are Jews, a lot [INAUDIBLE]. There is no-- no book that's starting with-- and-- from Vilna Ghetto where some very important diaries, like, Herman Kruk diaries.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1497.57,1508.13"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1508.13,1508.46"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Zalman Kalmanovich diaries. Uh, the girl-- girl-- there was about five, six memoirs. So this-- not memoirs, uh, diaries with-- in the ghetto. *Then it was some important books where they meet after Holocaust by Dr. Dworzecki,* by Ruska Korczak, by other people.  So-- so all this, in addition to the testimonies, and then some German documentation, starting with a-- with a-- Einsatzgruppen reports.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1508.46,1542.19"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1542.19,1542.93"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: The-- then the trial of-- of-- uh, the commander of Einsatzkommando nine Filbert *, which he was in Vilna and gave the first month. Then from-- there was the trial of Miller—Muller  and Hess, which was-- which where the-- in charge of the ghetto.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1542.93,1560.03"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Mhm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1560.03,1560.36"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: In Gebietskommissariat in-- in the-- in the Gestapo in Vilna. Then, uh, so-- so all this some Lithuanian material document-- documented published in Lithuania.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1560.36,1572.84"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Were you ever able to contact Gens's family, his wife or his daughter?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1572.84,1577.01"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: I know there were-- they were in the States.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1577.01,1578.57"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: In the States, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1578.57,1579.56"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: I didn't contact them. Eh, of course, maybe I would. But-- but I-- I had-- I had quite a clear picture about-- about Gens. And I would say that, uh, I am quite a favor of-- of him in my book, and I didn't change till today my attitude. *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1579.56,1601.12"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Do you think it was different from Rumkowski in Lodz?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1601.12,1603.71"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1603.71,1604.04"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1604.04,1604.37"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Yeah. A better-- a better person than Rumkowski?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1604.37,1606.25"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: A better person, and he tried, in his way, to-- to-- to do what he can. *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1606.25,1612.74"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Mhm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1612.74,1613.88"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: And, actually, even he is dead. Actually, it could, you know, he could escape. Before it was called the Gestapo, it was on the 16 or 17th of September of, uh, of September '43. He was told that he-- maybe they're going to-- to kill him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1613.88,1627.71"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And he said, no, I'm not going. He had somebody to-- his wife was outside the ghetto. And some Lithuanians friends who could [INAUDIBLE] in the-- the Lithuanian Army before. So it-- it could survive in some way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1627.71,1638.84"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But he said, no, I-- I-- I-- I didn't-- I was against leaving the ghetto. I was, so-- I-- I-- as long as the ghetto exists, I-- I am part of it. I'm going to it. And, uh, I would say in the most of the memoirs, most Gens, Dessler is very criticized, but-- his deputy.  *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1638.84,1659.07"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1659.07,1659.27"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: But Gens quite put in a-- in-- in a positive way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1659.27,1665.15"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Well, let me ask you a question about, uh, another problem that's always fascinated me, the-- sometimes the consequences of a heroic action led to severe punishment for Jews. You mentioned in Swieciany, when you decided not--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1665.15,1679.5"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Yes, the stories, [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1679.5,1680.12"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: --to go. When-- when Glazman  and his group escaped from the ghetto--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1680.12,1683.71"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1683.71,1684.29"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: --they were ambushed, and I think nine of them were killed, and the Germans found out who they were and went back and arrested their families.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1684.29,1690.84"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: They [INAUDIBLE]. They caught them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1690.84,1691.91"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: And killed them. How do you evaluate that? You had to take risks to save yourself, but sometimes that led to the murder of other people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1691.91,1699.68"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Doubtlessly, the-- the collective punishment was an obstacle for many to leave to go because you know that when you are leaving, you are escaping, you are endangering your family, which you couldn't take to in the forest, because the forest was not friendly for-- for women and children, and let's-- you know, *[INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1699.68,1720.62"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Look, I-- many times, when I am lecturing that's in Israel, I am before with some army units, some pilot groups, some officers, cadet schools, and that-- look, I-- I wanted to-- to tell you a story and to ask request question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1720.62,1737.76"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Let's say I am in the Vilna Ghetto, and I work on the railway station, and I have a [? Schein ?] passport that I am working there, and because of this, my wife and my two children are staying in the ghetto. They have some-- some smaller occasional food and, also, when I am coming back from the work, I am smuggling some potatoes, some things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1737.76,1758.39"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we live in the hope that some miracle will happen, that maybe that will not-- Germans will not have time to-- to-- to-- to-- to kill us and that we shall survive. But the other, I am aged 25. I can't *(can?)get a rifle. I can't escape the ghetto, reach the forest, and to fight a heroic fight, blew up trains and then an ambush and everything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1758.39,1780.23"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I know that when I leave the ghetto, in the first selection, my wife, my children, will be executed because they are survive-- I arrive because I am still in there, and they will-- before that, they will suffer from-- from-- from hunger because-- what do you think is the right thing to do? To go and ask and the people, which not just, what do you think? Silence. *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1780.23,1803.93"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What do you think? And I am next question, I myself as a young boy did it. I escaped. I endangered. But-- but-- but even-- I myself in [INAUDIBLE], if I would be now thinking in the age of 25 with a wife and two children, I think more heroic is to stay.** So such and-- such problem exists among many-- many Jews.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1803.93,1826.54"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Mhm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1826.54,1827.68"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: At that time, I didn't think about it. I was 16 or 17 years, where I stole the arms, or 15 years, so I-- I-- I was no-- not-- not responsible for nobody. And-- and, so but when you feel somebody in other age, it's different.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1827.68,1840.61"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So this, again, when I am speaking about-- you mentioned Gens. You know, I usually-- there is the famous story about Gens sending Jewish policemen Oszmiana. * You know the story?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1840.61,1849.61"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Yes, yes, to round [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1849.61,1850.99"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: And I am-- when I-- I was teaching in the Tel Aviv, in the university for students. Usually, I-- I--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1850.99,1856.19"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Why don't you tell that story? People will-- won't know that. Tell it briefly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1856.19,1859.21"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: OK, the stories that-- well, near Vilna was in ghetto called Oszmiana. I mentioned the ghetto. There were 6,000 Jews. One day, Weiss from the Gestapo, Weiss was the man. I said Hess.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1859.21,1872.68"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Weiss was the man of Gestapo in charge of the gh-- called Gens and told him, look, in Oszmiana, there are too many Jews, 6,000. Many of them are just food eaters without any-- they are not working, children, of women. I want you to send your police to select 1,500 women and children who are not working and hand them over to my-- to my-- to the Lithuanian police. This is what I want you to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1872.68,1899.75"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Gens told him, I am doing it. And then they went, finally, finally, from Oszmiana, 406 old people and sick people, old and sick people were selected by Jewish police, handed over to the Germans, and they were killed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1899.75,1919.47"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When Gens-- after this operation, Gens called a meeting of the intelligentsia in the Vilna Ghetto, and he told them the story.* Two weeks ago, Weiss called me and told me do the aktion, 1,500, I told him, zum Befehl, according to your order.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1919.47,1937.42"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then I sent Dessler with-- with Gen-- with-- with Weiss to Oszmiana to make to see on the spot how to organize it. On the way, we succeeded not 1,500, but there are no 1,500, only about 800 women and children, which, in this category, which are not working and [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1937.42,1957.61"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then Gens said, I went with the Jewish police, with-- with Weiss to Oszmiana. On the way, I persuade him that not 600, but not-- not 800, only 600 [INAUDIBLE]. Then I sent my policemen. They selected 406 not women, not children, but old people, sick people, invalids, which all-- which will in anyway, not-- maybe not survived many years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1957.61,1982.03"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I handed them over to the Germans, and that they killed them, Germans and Lithuanians. I could refuse. I said, I could refuse to Weiss to do it. But then it would have been the same thing which happened a month ago in two other localities, [? Kiemieliszki ?] and Bystrzyca, also near Vilna. Then a month ago, Weiss came to me and asked me to send the Jewish police to do some selection in business in [? Kiemieliszki ?], to all the selection and women and children are going, and I refused to do it. *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=1982.03,2011.22"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know what happened now, what is now in business in [? Kiemieliszki ?]? You send the Lithuanian police, and today is no-- no one Jews. They killed all the Jews there. I am today saying-- not making the-- the account of-- of Jewish honor.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2011.22,2027.45"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I make the account of Jewish blood.* I want those-- the women and children who are the future of our people that they should survive. Old people, sick people, let them forgive me, but they were on the-- the victims of this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2027.45,2040.89"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, you know, what said the Jews, I-- I didn't ask. I didn't call you here to discuss the matter. I just wanted you to do what I am doing, and if we-- we need in the future, I will do it again. Thank you. Go home.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2040.89,2056.16"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we-- we have the protocol of this-- of this meeting. That is the protocol. In my book, Ghetto in Flames, I am quoting it. Then you-- when I in seminars and the university [INAUDIBLE], I quoted this-- this, uh, protocol of the meeting. *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2056.16,2072.59"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I told him, OK, let's-- Gens didn't survive, but let's say Gens survived, and Gens is brought before you for a trial. Let-- for what he did, what do you think should be the verdict? Silence. To look-- it's-- it's a rare occasion when Jewish policeman, according to Jew-- Gens order, select the Jews knowing they're going to be killed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2072.59,2095.7"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Another occasion were-- but this would direct to this. Again, silence, So I told him, usually, I used to say, look, I'm not going to tell you what is the right or what's the wrong. I just wanted you to understand the problematic Jews faced and that-- the tragic situation which Jews like Gens found themselves.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2095.7,2117.66"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't what-- what would be the verdict today if it would be brought to trial, but just-- my purpose is every one of you should judge how he wants to do it, but to understand the situation at that time, which is very hard today, sitting in such a nice room, 30, 40, 50 years later, to understand only if you put yourself inside the ghetto of '43, the situation there only, and putting to say this situation maybe we'd be able to understand the problems.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2117.66,2152.24"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: So how do you feel about people like Hannah Arendt and even Raul Hilberg, who are critical of the Judenräte?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2152.24,2158.93"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: I think that they-- they didn't understand enough, at this point, what I am trying to tell here because, uh, we say that at that time, there was a saying of-- of-- related to Rabbi Nissenbaum, Warsaw Ghetto, which said in the past, when the-- our enemy wanted our soul, we gave our lives on Kiddushem.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2158.93,2192.44"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Sanctification of the name.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2192.44,2193.47"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: [INAUDIBLE] the role of God in order to preserve our soul. Now in order to give our body-- in order to preserve our soul. Now with that enemy, once our soul, our-- our body-- we-- we-- our answer is Kiddush Hachaim,*   this--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2193.47,2212.36"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Sanctification of life?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2212.36,2213.18"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Sanctification of life. So-- so everything should be done in order to-- to survive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2213.18,2219.3"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: So we-- we preserve our body--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2219.3,2220.91"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Perserve.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2220.91,2220.97"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: --and maybe for it with a little bit of our soul.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2220.97,2222.8"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: And, again, I-- I-- there is an famous story from the Kaunas ghetto. You know there was the story that the Germans, they called the Judenrat and told them-- I don't remember how many, and I think, 5,000, to-- to give that [? Schein, ?] 5,000, Jordan. Jordan was a German.   *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2222.8,2239.57"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Jordan, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2239.57,2240.11"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: [? Jordan schein. ?]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2240.11,2240.48"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: He was a captain, a German captain.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2240.48,2242.33"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Yes, and he was in charge of the ghetto to divide among the Jews, which are working for the Germans and the tailors, shoemakers or into German units. Then the Judenrat started to divide this [? [NON-ENGLISH]. ?] *(scheinen)And then the Judenrat got telephone poles from outside, from Germans or Lithuanian institutions outside telling I-- I wanted to give for-- for my Jews working with me the Lebenschein, Lebenschein means the-- the-- the permit to live.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2242.33,2271.81"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Uh-huh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2271.81,2272.54"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: So you never un-- understood it. Maybe this is actually those we don't have the [? [NON-ENGLISH]  ?] are going to-- to be killed. So they stopped the-- the division of the [? [NON-ENGLISH], ?] distributed of the [? [NON-ENGLISH]. ?] Then some 1,000 Jews who had [INAUDIBLE] received the [? [NON-ENGLISH] ?] surrounded Juden(Judenrat) they called. If the Germans want to leave us alive, we'll give you the right not to-- to give us back the-- the-- the [? [NON-ENGLISH]. ?]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2272.54,2296.75"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If they want us to [INAUDIBLE], [INAUDIBLE]. They went to the rabbi. It was the Vilna Ghetto rabbi, a famous rabbi.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2296.75,2302.31"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Kov-- Kovno.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2302.31,2303.83"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: The Kovno Ghetto. It was the Kovno Ghetto and famous rabbi. I forgot his-- his name just, but he was famous. In my book, I mentioned, but-- and asked what to do, what to do, to divide [INAUDIBLE]. The rabbi told him, OK, let me take(*think) over overnight. *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2303.83,2320.12"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In the morning, he told them, distribute the [? [NON-ENGLISH]. ?] Why? He said, there was a story. We brought in our-- in our, uh, sage's, uh, books.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2320.12,2330.77"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Two people went in the desert, and they had one bottle of water.* If both of-- of them will drink the water, no one of them will survive. If one will drink, he will survive, and the sec-- the second will die. What's the right thing to do? Let the one drink the water and the second not, or to divide the water between two of them, let them-- both of them die?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2330.77,2353.15"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the answer was at that time, let the one drink the water and survive while the others, so-- so if the Germans wanted the [INAUDIBLE] will survive, let them survive, and, uh, so the-- the-- this is the problematic I would say of the-- of-- of the Holocaust, which, again, can be understood only in the situation of that time and not-- not today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2353.15,2374.39"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Now do you think you yourself are in a better position to understand that as a historian or as a historian who is also a survivor?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2374.39,2381.98"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Survivor, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2381.98,2383.52"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Do you think it's because you're a survivor you're in a better position--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2383.52,2386.1"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Definitely, a lot. I would say, but I am-- writing my story is-- my historical research I'm trying to do my best, as I said, to be [INAUDIBLE] out-- outside and not to be involved it. But, still, I cannot say that it's-- it's possible to disconnect yourself entirely from this situation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2386.1,2405.12"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think in some way, it is-- it adds more color, I would say, to the story when you have some personal view-- trying to be objective as-- as far as-- as possible. But I think I can understand more the situation than some people are doing. The researchers are maybe the best historians, but, uh, without having the experience of that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2405.12,2428.53"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think, you know, when I was the chairman of Yad Vashem, I was 21 years chairman Yad Vashem, as I told. We started to promote the project to write a comprehensive list *(history)of the Holocaust in 25 volumes. And I called a meeting of-- of leading historians in Yad-- in Israel and Yad Vashem-- to discuss whether it's time to write this story now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2428.53,2449.04"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, of course, somebody said, look, uh, it's not enough perspective, not enough then objectivity because we are involved personally. Even those of us who didn't survive the Holocaust, still we-- we leave this period, and we are [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2449.04,2462.36"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I finally decided, lets our generation that survived the Holocaust write its version. Let the future generation change edit, but let's ask because it's one time occasion that people who were part-- who were involved in it can also write the-- the history of what happened? So-- so-- so this time, I'm thinking, which it's important for us still to tell our story, as far as possible objective, but, uh, with our-- our view on it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2462.36,2495.45"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Um, do you have plans after the Soviet Union volume?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2495.45,2500.61"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Uh, I have some plans, which, uh, maybe not exactly pure research. You know, when I worked the Soviet Union, you know, the Soviet Union, the people were killed in thousands of localities, were shot on the spot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2500.61,2518.27"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And in my work with Soviet Union, I mentioned because [INAUDIBLE] testimony that says let's say the Jews from Vitebsk were taken out 4 kilometers on the northeast of the city on the road to, let's say, to-- to-- to-- to Smolensk, let's say, and there was an anti-tank ditch near the village, and there they were shot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2518.27,2535.31"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But nobody tried to put this on-- on a map, on an atlas. And the-- and this place is-- are no-- no tombstones, nothing, maybe there are-- it's all the forest on the place, maybe some-- the-- the city was enlarged, and there are [INAUDIBLE] houses.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2535.31,2549.54"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I-- I would like to prepare an historical atlas *telling, look, putting of these localities and telling the story of what happened there, not only just making, let's say, some sign this were killed, but telling in this and this place, the 25th of November '41, 2,500 Jews of this town were taken out and shot, but it was-- so-- so-- so-- so such a thing. I remem-- I mentioned my research about over 50 forests, where Jewish partisan groups were active, different stories.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2549.54,2583.37"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Again, when I tried to find a place on a map, I tried-- I didn't find it because there are no such-- such, uh, small scale, large-scale maps, which-- which all-- each forest is a-- I want to prepare this all as an atlas which-- which-- which will be put on-- on-- which will put everything, and the story what happened there because I feel if I should not do it, nobody will do it because a when I-- as a soldier, as a military man, when I looked on a map, the production map, I can see that-- what the forest, this [INAUDIBLE], the place of-- of-- adapted.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2583.37,2621.08"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then I think we should also now prepare there is no scientific anthology on Jewish resistance in Europe. Again, not memoirs, but just research done. Today, if somebody wants, let's say, to read, to have some [INAUDIBLE], it was Jewish resistance, underground group in France was, in Belgium was, in Germany was the Baum group, the [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2621.08,2645.14"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: No comprehensive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2645.14,2646.04"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: No-- no-- no-- in Slovakia during the uprising, Yugoslavia were Jews, and, of course, in Poland and in Soviet Union underground. It's a lot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2646.04,2655.59"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: That's a major undertaking.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2655.59,2656.59"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: A major undertaking, but it should be done.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2656.59,2658.49"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2658.49,2660.18"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: And it can be done. It needs-- it needs initiative, initiative institution behind. I proposed now Yad Vashem do it. I'm ready to-- to-- to undertake it because some of them, I will-- I wrote already, Soviet Union, I have a like chapter of Jewish partisan, Jewish underground, Jewish uprising, Sobibor, Treblinka and other pictures and Vilna Ghetto. So but I want to enlarge it to-- to [INAUDIBLE].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2660.18,2682.6"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Now, in your research, particularly in the Soviet Union, have you found evidence that would lead you to revise the number of Jewish victims of the Holocaust?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2682.6,2691.61"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: I came to a conclusion about victims. I reached some numbers, again, it's approximately, but-- but it is-- the most possible approximate that can be-- that can be done. It's a very complicated thing because we don't know exactly the numbers of how many were evacuated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2691.61,2708.12"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now Soviet Union, let's say, if they captured France, all the French Jews, the large majority of them became under the German or the Vichy rule. Soviet wasn't (was)big evacuation of enterprises of-- of-- of-- of institutions. Then was mobilization of the army. The young-- not young, age 18 until 50, were taken to the army. It's 100,000 of people. It's not just a few thousand each number. They changed the whole numbers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2708.12,2737.85"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So all this-- in some way, I build-- I have some chapters dealing with this, and I reached some conclusions, which maybe I tomorrow evening I also will mention about it. I am speaking here. And, uh, again, it depends what you consider as victims, Jewish victims, because, again, the question is, you know, in-- in the city of Leningrad, about 600,000 citizens died out of hunger, bombing, deceased. *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2737.85,2762.56"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: During the siege, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2762.56,2764.15"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: About 10% of the cities of Leningrad, or St. Petersburg today, were Jews. How do you consider them? Victims of the Holocaust or no. So it's actually--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2764.15,2773.78"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/231","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Complicated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2773.78,2774.44"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: When Poland considered the victims of-- or United States [INAUDIBLE], everyone [INAUDIBLE]. Jewish soldiers, which were in-- in-- in the battlefield, the Soviet Army, about over 120,000 Jews fell in the fighting.* How-- how-- what are they? In the 6 million? Out of the 6 million?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2774.44,2790.43"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Maybe we should now decide there all Holocaust victims are all the victims of Second World War, which is a larger number. So all-- this problems, I-- in my research of Soviet Union, I-- I am relative with this, and I, actually, I include them as-- as victims [INAUDIBLE] of the Second World War.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2790.43,2810.64"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Why do you think, 50 years after the war, so many things remain to be done?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2810.64,2818.38"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Eh, yeah, there are-- there are still a lot of things, which we don't know. In spit of the fact that 56 years actually passed since the Holocaust, and still there are why-- I called white stains.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2818.38,2831.49"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: What are some of the things we don't know yet?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2831.49,2834.85"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: [INAUDIBLE] Soviet Union, yes? Even when I say that I mentioned that the numbers which we spoke now, which is the whole problem of the local population.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2834.85,2845.0"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What I'm trying to say, without the help of local population, the Germans would be unable to find out who is a Jew, especially the Soviet Union, because let's say in France, maybe they-- they captured all the archives. In Soviet Union, the Soviet Army retreated. Either the burned the archives, or the-- or the, uh, evacuated them with them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2845.0,2869.44"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The only way the German could say this is a Jew is by the local policemen, the local collaborators, that this is a Jew. So the help from the local population, and Soviet Union, they-- they never touched-- you know, very little research was done in Soviet Union, even Russia till today, about what happened to almost 80 million Soviet citizens, which lived under German occupation, between '41 till '44, '43, '44, there were schools. There were theaters, Russian under-- a whole life just. *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2869.44,2904.3"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They didn't touch them because they didn't want to touch the problem of collaboration. So-- so-- a lot of problems and such. Then let's say-- I just asked before this morning, you know, when the Germans came to Crimea, they met the Jewish tribes to note that the Krymchaks, or the Karaims, or where they came in Caucausus, they came-- they came across the mountain Jews, the Tats it's called.  *","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2904.3,2929.93"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They didn't know-- they are Jews and non-Jews whether they are from racist point of view or not. So something was written about it. Even my research, I wrote to it, but still I don't think that now enough was done.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2929.93,2945.67"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I came across a very interesting story in my research. You know, there were Jewish prisoners of war in Finland. Finnish Army took Jewish prisoners of war to the Soviet Army. And one day, they concentrated all the prisoners, the Jews separately, and the life of Jewish prisoners was better than the non-Jewish prisoners.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2945.67,2971.11"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The question is why-- why did the Finn concentrate-- separate the Jews for otherwise, whether they actually wanted to make them in better conditions, or they actually-- they concentrate them to hand them over to the Germans if the Germans will press to-- it's a long story about the five Finnish Jews, you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2971.11,2988.65"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If you would ask today, did somebody-- did Jews fight on the German side during the Second World War, they would say, no, no, no Jews fighting. In the Finnish Army, Finland was a part-- a partner of Germany, a few hundred Jews--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=2988.65,3002.3"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Were in the Finnish?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3002.3,3002.87"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: --were in the Finnish Army fighting against us, even officers. And when Himmler came to Finland and told it what-- the Finnish Jews, there were 2,000 Jews, they were told, no. They are our citizens. They are part of us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3002.87,3017.45"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But the problem with the prisoners of war, it's-- I tried to find that was the reason, and it still-- I-- I didn't ask him to answer for Finland. So it is a lot of stories which still-- the whole stories we know, but still there are a lot of details.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3017.45,3031.0"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Still have to be worked out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3031.0,3031.77"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Which have to be worked out. Let's say that-- I wrote an article about the attitude of Soviet government to the Holocaust based on public-- on publications, but still there is one archive, the Kremlevskiy Archive, or, today, it's called Prezidentskiy Archive in Moscow, which was of Stalin [? politburo ?]. It's still today is a closed-- closed, uh, archive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3031.77,3054.82"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And my opinion-- let's say the Soviet government didn't bother what happened to the Jews, not the Jews. They didn't bother what happened to the local people and, uh, to the Russians in the occup-- in the occupation. It was but only the one thing, the partisan movement as part of fighting, but not of killing, not of terror, no nothing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3054.82,3072.85"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But still it would be interesting to find out whether the Soviet government once in the whole war discussed the question of the annihilation of Jews under [INAUDIBLE], in the temporary German occupied territories.* So I'll-- still a lot of questions now. The [INAUDIBLE] relation of the-- of-- of Ukrainians, collaborations, all of this is still-- still a lot should be-- a lot should be done.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3072.85,3097.56"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And there are many small localities which-- which don't have any testimony about it because Jews are killed in each-- in each place. It's not like from all you, they are brought to Auschwitz, Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, so the story of each place is not full.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3097.56,3113.71"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I can tell you a problem. We know in Babi Yar were killed in 29 of September, 33,000 Jews. In Kiev, lived before the war, almost close to 200,000 Jews in Kiev. It's impossible that all of them except 35,000 left the city, impossible.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3113.71,3133.68"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think in the German occupation remained at least 6,000 to 7,000 Jews. What-- what happened to the-- the difference between 33,000 up to 60,000, 70,000? When were they killed? What happened to them?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3133.68,3145.19"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: We still don't know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3145.19,3145.91"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: We still-- I-- I think they were during the two years of occupation, groups of 100, 200, all the time killed, local people, uh, and asked about them. We have many documents and of announcements saying this is this house and second floor lives a Jewish women. She says she is Russian, but [INAUDIBLE] documents.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3145.91,3163.72"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, still-- still more should be done about-- about it. So it can-- [INAUDIBLE] speak only about the Soviet Union, but many other places [INAUDIBLE] also.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3163.72,3179.16"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Well, we've kept you a long time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3179.16,3181.14"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: OK.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3181.14,3182.29"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: And I can't tell you how much we appreciate you giving us all this time. You are-- you're a source of all kinds of information.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3182.29,3191.1"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: OK. Many details, I-- I left-- I-- I didn't tell about all the partisan events, which were a lot of events I could tell about it and other things in the-- on the way to Israel and the whole escape route and then problems, but it's--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3191.1,3203.59"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: Inevitably, we miss things, but we have an abundance already. We thank you very much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3203.59,3207.83"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"YITZHAK ARAD: Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3207.83,3214.58"},{"id":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423/transcript/70153/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAWRENCE L. LANGER: I was a Fulbright professor at the University of Graz.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://fortunoff.aviaryplatform.com/collections/5/collection_resources/4147/file/66423#t=3214.58,3252.91"}]}]}]}